To those who keen to buy a GPS from trademe--for better for worse, you should read this

Forums › GPS, maps and mapping software › To those who keen to buy a GPS from trademe--for better for worse, you should read this

saikit

69 posts

Master Geek

#60266 23-Apr-2010 01:03

I will give you a detalied quote and information here. Feel feel to use or paste into other forums. If you want a original quote for any purpose, i can not provide those things, but a little more research will help u to find out. I am out of this market for ever. so what I telling here is really secret story, such as what you paid for. RMB-->chinese dollar, 1NZD=4.8RMB

1. WinCE kernel GPS---Those GPS units are all from Shenzhen China, so you might want to know what is the cost of each GPS. They are really cheap. such as this factory in shenzhen(www.szelebest.com) probably provides quite a lot of units to NZ. So for 100 unit of 7 inch unit, it will be 500RMB/unit. so it will be around 100NZD. for 100 unit of 5 inch GPS, it will be 400RMB/unit(around 80NZD/unit). for 100 unit of 4.3 inch GPS, it will be 350RMB(around 70NZD/unit). for 100 unit of 3.5 inch GPS, it will be 300RMB/unit(around 60NZD/unit. You might think I make up those figures. you can send an email to www.szelebest.com and ask for a quote. if you order more, the price will be cheaper. 100 units to 500 units, the price of same unit will be similar. The quote I give here is about 1 year old. So i am sure the current price is cheaper.

But you might say wait a minute, those sellers still need to pay for freight fee and import tax. yes. but shipping from China to NZ is cheap. DHL or UPS from Hong Kong to New Zealand can be 50RMB/kg to 60RMB/kg. So 50 units via DHL only cost around 1200RMB(it is around 240NZD). If you get a quote from DHL, it will be expensive because you are an individual customer. but there are a lot of agents in shenzhen or HK, they collect freights and help you to obtain better rate from DHL or UPS. Because those agents daily freight can be very large, more than 1000kg, it will be easy for them to get a better rate from DHL or UPS. so 10NZD/KG from HK to new zealand is common. As long as it is not christman period, this price is always similar. So how about import tax. Just one example, 100 units might cost 8000NZD. But the invoice only claims 1000NZD. so importer just need to pay 125NZD for tax. But there are many ways to bypass the custom system.

So let us calculate the total cost for 100 units of 7 inch GPS(100NZD per unit). 10000NZD(payment to the factory)+450NZD(DHL fee)+120NZD(tax)=10570NZD. so cost of each unit will be 105.70NZD. So you might cry, the price in trademe is 200NZD, 300NZD or even more! Oh I still have many maps and GPS navigation system.

So for iGO, there are so many iGO copies in the internet now. you can download with any problem, such as GPSUXdergXound. You can ask the factory in shenzhen to install for you. Those factories can install tomtom/garmin/iGO(all are free, if they want to charge you on software when asking a quote, just answer that I know GPS software are illegal copies so.....they will install for you finally withouth extra charge)

So you can calculate the cost of 5.0/4.3/3.5 inch GPS units. Well, I can not say those units are bad, but I am quite sure the hardware quality can not be as good as tomtom/garmin. So I can not give a judgement/suggestion when you need to spend around 200NZD on 4.3 inch unit, but I am sure 50% or more of your payment is the profit. So just click active sellers in trademe and check their feedbacks. you can almost calculate their income in the past. It is not a bad business. 50% or more profit.!

well if feedbacks are good here, I will post more inside stories here.

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#321898 23-Apr-2010 03:01

Nice post !
Look to reading more from you in the future.

saikit

69 posts

Master Geek

#322069 23-Apr-2010 13:21

thanks for you support!

xpd

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#322074 23-Apr-2010 13:39

Just a note... the site you refer to is a place holder... no actual site there.

XPD / Gavin

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GBristow

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#322078 23-Apr-2010 13:49

I think he means http://elebest.com/en/

saikit

69 posts

Master Geek

#322092 23-Apr-2010 14:04

yes it is dead now.

http://www.google.co.nz/#hl=en&q=elebest+GPS&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=elebest+GPS&gs_rfai=&fp=5611ce6eb7180bcc

as you can see it existed before. I visisted this factory in long hua district shenzhen at oct 2009. It was in an very old warehouse. All their products are made by hands! yes, by hands! I am not kidding here. it is whole hand wielding process.

the cycle of electronic factory in shenzhen is really short now. some factories are like workshop. some are pretty advanced. some agents just pretend to be manufactures( I mean companies really haveh factories which can produce GPS). for example this is a GPS agent website:http://www.xeraygps.com/Index.html

the price from agents actually can be better from manufactures. It is a game of amount and price. If you order 1000 units, the price can be cheaper, but if you order 100 units, you can not bargain with manufactures and they might not accept your order. 100 unit is so small order. but those agents they can give better price because they stock quite a lot of GPS units.

saikit

69 posts

Master Geek

#322114 23-Apr-2010 15:02

Please reply/comment, even if you want to question me with doubt, so that I have the motivation to continue.

someone might not believe my first post. So let me know post more details about GPS software here.

there are more forums in the Internet to release hacked GPS softwares. most of forums are english forums.

Here I need to give some introduction of window mobile system and winCE system. However, I am not an expert. but you can find more information in wiki about these two systems. basically windows mobile system and winCE system are two very similar OS system in small programmable electronic units. such as windows mobile system in PDA and winCE in GPS. The Just like windows XP/Vista, winCE has been hacked and popularized in internet. So then winCE license in those chinese made GPS unit is not alway valid.

A. Garmin--Garmin does not release any software in winCE platform. But you might receive one winCE kernel GPS with Garmin. It is Garmin Mobile XT. It is supposed to run in windows mobile system. Someone has modified mobile XT and you can install in winCE kernel unit. Mobile XT in winCE 5.0(hacked version) is quite stable now. Considering there is a NZ open GPS project(nzopengps.org), it will be nice to have mobile XT because mobile XT can load the map from NZ open GPS project. The map from NZ open GPS project is free and weekly updated. The map is freel but the software, mobile XT in winCE is hacked version. So when someone in trademe advertises that it has Garmin mobile XT, it is 100% hacked version.

B. TomTom--tomtom does not release any software in WinCE platform either. TomTom PDA navigator is one software which is designed in windows mobile PDA. Now TomTom released another one product in iphone. Both products have been hacked and you can download from internet. It might be good news to some iphone users. For those winCE kernel GPS, if they are advertised with tomtom GPS system, 100% percent hacked version.

C. iGO---IGo released winCE product. but licenses are not cheaper. if you are seller, you want to install iGo into your selling GPS with legal licenses. It is possible, iGO will send to you. but only if you order 500 units or more. I do not know the price for the license. but it can not be less than 100USD/unit. A simple google sesearch: http://www.google.co.nz/#hl=en&q=igo+8.3+new+zealand+map&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=5611ce6eb7180bcc, you will find out there are so many iGO hacked version availble.

when you finish here, you might say: hold on a second, it means that all the winCE-kernel units in trademe come with illegal copies. why does trademe stop them? in trademe policy, it is prohibited to sell an item without proper copyright. To answer this question: we have to understand how trademe makes profit. please input 200NZD in this link:http://www.trademe.co.nz/Help/FeeCalculator.aspx. So you can see when you pay 200NZD to a seller. Not all the money into seller's pocket. The sucess fee will be charged on seller by trademe, it means that the success fee is trademe's money. So for a seller has 10 current lists(all are 4.3 GPS) and all 10 are sold in one week at 200NZD. so trademe will get 126NZD from this seller. So when there are 1000 sellers who are doing those things, it means 126000NZD into trademe's pocket. So why does trademe say NO to those active sellers if no one accuse them? You might cry again: no I can change that, I can use communicty watch. here I do encourage you to use. If you did not purchase an item or without proper evidences, trademe will ignore your report. Sellers are smart now. They will not specify that it is garmin or tomtom in their advertisements any more. Furthermore, tomtom and garmin have official representation in New zealand. They have warned trademe many times about illegal softwares in those winCE unit. Even if you ask what kind of navigation system, they will not answer or give you false information. For iGO, it is interested, because iGO does not have any official representation in australia and new zealand. So you can see iGO in many advertisements in trademe now. however the fact is that it is not legal copy. So if you are a buyer, you get such a winCE unit at 200ND. It is nice at the moment. but after 6 months. The seller disappears or did not response your email. You also do not how to install the hacked software and upate maps. Oh it is your lost now. So if you want to purchase a winCE kernel GPS, better know some computer skill and learn how to install hacked software. Another suggestion for buyer: if you really want to have one winCE-kernel GPS, you should purchase from ebay HK. Because trademe does not allow international seller, it gives the chance for local sellers to make profit. Many GPS manufactures have their offices in Hong Kong. THose offices also sell their GPS in Ebay Hong Kong. Because they are manufactures, selling 100 units at 80NZD/units to a NZ seller is same as selling 90NZD/unit to a NZ buyer in ebay. Someone might not trust/like ebay so much. Well nothing can be 100% perfect. Am I right here? if it is cheap, you need to take a international risk. so you better register paypal account and dispute anytime you feel unhappy to get your money back. but if you want to purchase from tradme, you need to pay more. I do not believe that trademe will stop those sellers because those sellers actually contribute most to trademe fee.

D. Navsmart--someone might not know this software. but there is big saler in trademe who is selling this GPS. Actually it uses a GPS software developed by a US compay: http://www.horizonnav.com. I personally confirm the authenitic license for this saler. The sale from horizonnav has confirmed that navsmart is the only official distributor for navmate software. So you might ask, hey are you that guy in trademe who is selling navmate. ha! I am not. let me tell you more that how navsmart is legal. First you need to contact a manufactuer which has proper connection to navmate office in shenzhen. Not all the manufactures are accepted by navmate.you can contact navmate in shenzhen directly. You can also contact the company in US. So navmate is software provider. a manufacturer will install navmate into GPS unit after you pay the license fee to navmate. So according to 2009 quote and price in trademe of navsmart, it is impossible to get profit or profit is very little. So you have to order 1000 units to make profits. you can check those navsmart sellers records. they use 1NZD no reserve auction to sell more than 10 untis in one week. so you could estimate how many they order. But you might think that well it is legal, I am ready to pay even though they only have New zealand maps. But I personally sent emails to navsmart(NZ), they claimed that they can provide other countries maps(50NZD). haha. scare now? how can it be so cheap after you see the quote(difference countries have different prices, it is US currency).

[Moderatord edit (MF): remove email addresses, removed link to proprietary document on request]

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kontonnz

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#322148 23-Apr-2010 16:21

interesting reading :0

saikit

69 posts

Master Geek

#322151 23-Apr-2010 16:27

after reading two posts from me, you might think: well, i might choose a good brand such as navman/tomtom/garmin. let me expose more here

let us talk about navman first. All navman units have winCE kernal and navman software are running in winCE. Navman is a NZ brand. It is interesting because there are few navman hacked software in the internet. If you want to buy Navman, you should also know MIO. MIO is a taiwan manufacture. MIO is aimed to produce hardware. Navman is mainly a software company, just like iGO. MIO purchased navman a few years ago but navman still can keep its brand in new zealand, australia and UK. So basically MIO unit and navman unit are the same. You need to unlock the unit to see the winCE desktop(those normal winCE unit can be unlocked to expose winCE desktop, but it depends on different manufactures). http://navmanunlocked.wikispaces.com/ is a good place to learn how to unlock your navman unit.

so let us talk about navman in trademe.

1: Navman/Mio Knight rider 4.3 GPS: there are quite a few this model in trademe now. yes Mio Knight rider is one model which can be only sold in US and Canada under Mio brand. Now those in trademe is under navman name. Well you can not find this product in navman website. according to those supplier in china, they claim that after the success of Mio knight rider, MIO decides to put this model to european market and uses navman brand, however because of finacial crisis, most of orders are cancelled. So those units are selling in China. I can not tell it is true or not. But a mio knight with iGO maps(igo amigo is also developed by iGO) does not have proper copyright. First iGO never sell his software to navman or MIO. Because MIO knight rider is a winCE kernel unit, it is the same thing to install hacked iGO software in mio knight rider like those winCE kernel units. So after you purcahse those units, do not expect navman will protect your right. It is not navman's product.

2. then Navman S55. Only one seller in trademe seems to sell this product. Again. with iGO, it is not a navman unit any more. So when you go to navman or iGO, none of them will protect your units.

It is quite amazing to see that trademe allows these two products and Navman is NZ branz. either navman does not care about that or trademe's law department is really not smart. These two models are so obviously illegal products. staff in tradme must be too lazy to call navman to confirm the fact, but it is true that navman does not put too much effort in cleaning illegal products in trademe. Navman is a rather small internation company, comparing to tomtom & garmin.

So how to judage whether you should purchase it or not.

first let me expose the cost of those units. Mio Knight riders, the supplier is from Hong Kong. It is a trading company owned by another trading company in su zhou, china. the quote I got for mio knight rider is 330RMB/unit(around 66NZD/unit). so again from my previous post, you can calculate the actual cost to a seller to transport 100 units of mio Knight rider from Hong kong to NZ. So is Navman S55, but this one is cheaper, around 250RMB(around 50NZD). Mio Knight rider should be brandnew. but i heard of that some mio knight rider units are fake. it is possible. Because MIO's factory is in su zhou, China. So some other small manufacturer might just steal the technique and clone MIO knight rider.

So again, it is really your personal choice, if you are confident to handle unlocked navman unit and install hacked iGO/garmin/tomtom software. Go for it. But if you have too much money, you can also go for it.

saikit

69 posts

Master Geek

#322180 23-Apr-2010 18:13

Get a little more time here after running. Come on, please give me some feedbacks here, no matter it is good or bad.

So someone might think, well it must be chinese seller who are doing those things. Actually after I spend some time and make contact with them, I found out that not all of them are chinese. However most of them are chinese sellers. It is true that most of electronic products are from shenzhen, China.

1. kiwi sellers: do not stand up and easy. Yes it is true, some kiwis(I mean really kiwis, not chinese kiwis, white kiwis.....sorry, if it is an offence to use white here) import those GPS units. very interesting. I see one kiwi, who claims that he can import 1000 units of GPS every months and sell it at 150NZD with 50% or more profit. It is possible for 1000 units. But when he sells this GPS unit in trademe, he actually does not sell the GPS unit with gps software. in the advertisement, he claims that he only sells GPS unit. after you purchase the GPS unit(150NZD), you can go to another website to download the software. Qow! some other kiwis, who sell units with software, put their after sale service by asking customers to get updated maps from there. Those kiwis might not be able to speak chinese or with chinese partner in nz. but it is not difficult to communicate with the sale in shenzhen. Sales in shenzhen usually can speak and write english. after sale, they even can arrange transport of your freight, such as sending to DHL via logistical agent. Those sales are quite professional. but you might think, ok, let me try to get some money from that. come on, those guys are very familiar with china ad visist china frequently. if you have not ever been to china before, you better forget about it or you can risk it.

2. Chinese sellers: most of these sellers are immigrants. They have very strong connection to China and have strong trading background. For those who can speak catonese, they can communicate with agent in HongKong freely. They usually ship freight by container via sea!!yes. one huge container!, easily can beat the shipping cost in DHL or UPS. so if you are a seller and you watn to compete those guys, either get better price or provide better service. price is their main advantage.

3. Indian sellers: sorry,,,but it is ture. Quite a lot of Indian sellers are so familiar with shenzhen China. They order quite a lot of products, such as camera, webcam, baby monitors. Some of them sell in trademe and quite a lot of them sell in their own shop......

4...might be more,, but I do not know

saikit

69 posts

Master Geek

#322204 23-Apr-2010 19:50

oh no, geekzone did not save my post regarding tomtom go 700 and tomtom go 300...anyway, if I can see more feedbacks here, i will try to re-type and submitt again.

kingjj

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#322205 23-Apr-2010 19:57

It certainly has been interesting reading your posts but I've got to wonder whether you are pushing for others to do dodgy deals and install warez (one of the sites you link to is warez related), this is against the forum FUG. If a mod/admin approves of this discussion then it would be interesting to learn more.

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k14

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#322206 23-Apr-2010 20:01

Yes very interesting indeed, keep it coming :)

kobiak

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#322215 23-Apr-2010 21:03

let us know the manufacture cost to build iphone and ipad and then RRP :) is not that the same? :) I'm using *no name* GPS device for almost a year now. it was twice cheaper then garmin or tomtom. it comes with iGo8. I don't care how it got there. I bought it in the good will and believed it was certified accordingly. do I have to pay twice more to receive the same service if i bought garmin or tomtom? no bloody way :)

yeah, keep posting :)

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freitasm

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#322217 23-Apr-2010 21:08

kobiak: let us know the manufacture cost to build iphone and ipad and then RRP :) is not that the same? :) I'm using *no name* GPS device for almost a year now. it was twice cheaper then garmin or tomtom. it comes with iGo8. I don't care how it got there. I bought it in the good will and believed it was certified accordingly. do I have to pay twice more to receive the same service if i bought garmin or tomtom? no bloody way :)

And by sponsoring this kind of trade you give some countries more power to negotiate trade agreements like ACTA.

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wazzageek

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#322218 23-Apr-2010 21:15

kobiak: let us know the manufacture cost to build iphone and ipad and then RRP :) is not that the same? :) I'm using *no name* GPS device for almost a year now. it was twice cheaper then garmin or tomtom. it comes with iGo8. I don't care how it got there. I bought it in the good will and believed it was certified accordingly. do I have to pay twice more to receive the same service if i bought garmin or tomtom? no bloody way :)

Well - two things:

1/ I hope you don't need to get support for this.
2/ I hope you don't end up supporting yourself through software.

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