Orcon+ network - constant dropouts

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Orcon+ network - constant dropouts

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491 posts

Ultimate Geek

#190265 17-Jan-2009 22:51

scottjpalmer: Have any of you tried the HomeHub?

My DrayTek was dropping every day or so, sometimes more frequently, and I suspected the DrayTek was faulty. Swapped to the HomeHub and it is a huge improvement.

Sure it's $5 / month but when Orcon do more good stuff it'll be ready to take it.

Was the Draytek working OK before you changed to Orcon?

From other threads, I understand that Orcon tend to push their DSL settings to get high sync speeds, possibly at the cost of reliability. My sync speed on an ADSL 2+ exchange went from 5 kb/s to 7 kb/s when I was changed to the Orcon+ network. I'm not convinced that providing a higher speed service at the expense of reliability is a good move, especially from my experience. If you do need a HomeHub to get a decent connection with Orcon, then maybe they should be upfront about it and include it in their plans?

I was a geek before the word was invented!

scottjpalmer

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#190266 17-Jan-2009 22:55

w2krules: Was the Draytek working OK before you changed to Orcon?

It seemed to be. I am giving it to someone else to test back on wholesale Telecom ADSL this week.

You can also have Orcon change your profile to favor stability over speed.

pronosis

16 posts

Geek

#190295 18-Jan-2009 00:54

Destroy? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. "Open"

Stats? Log is here

Techie? He says everything is "fine". Nope, shouldn't be charged. It's a technical fault not a wiring issue (at my end atleast). And nope, no active alarm, just an old unused / disconnected one.

The D-Link router is my Mum's one, I just used it to be sure that it wasn't my Belkin.

I have noticed that using the system late at night / early morning reduces the amount of Drops!

scottjpalmer

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#190296 18-Jan-2009 01:20

pronosis: . . . And nope, no active alarm, just an old unused / disconnected one . .

Are you SURE it is physically disconnected from the phone line? Always a possibility that it is causing issues if it is not.

honem

194 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#190297 18-Jan-2009 01:24

pronosis: Destroy? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. "Open"

Regardless LLU does not mean the public can just waltz in from the street and say "So I'ld like to check what color my DSLAM is". You'ld get escorted out of there by a nice security guard :D

Stats? Log is here

Ouch.

7db signal to noise and 50 attenuation ?

That's bad. Really bad. When my line had the same sort of stats I was getting a lot of drop outs as the connection was too weak to stay connected. Changing your modem won't change that just that some modem routers are better at others at keeping hold of a connection like that. A Dynalink 1025W is particualarly good for that.

I generally go off http://hwiki.digitalsouth.net.nz/broadband/attenuationandnoise for my guidelines for what is good and what is bad for attentuation & line noise.

And nope, no active alarm, just an old unused / disconnected one.

I wonder if that's it ? When I worked for Telecom if the customer had a monitored alarm installed they had to get a splitter installed on their line regardless of wheter it was active or not. In fact I can remember a case where a couple had a monitored alarm but was disconnected yet it still effected their broadband. We were subsequently trained to recommend a splitter regardless if it was active or not.
Can anyone confirm this ????

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- Hone , Often accused of Excess Verbosity
==================================

w2krules

491 posts

Ultimate Geek

#190303 18-Jan-2009 06:58

scottjpalmer:
w2krules: Was the Draytek working OK before you changed to Orcon?

It seemed to be. I am giving it to someone else to test back on wholesale Telecom ADSL this week.

Orcon+ does seem sensitive to the brand, or chipset, of your modem/router. It appears that Broadcom chipsets (e.g. Dynalink, TP-Link, some DSE) work fine - my TP-Link has managed 2-3 weeks without a disconnection when Orcon are not having problems.

scottjpalmer: You can also have Orcon change your profile to favor stability over speed.

We appear to have a "stability" profile as our SNR is 6 dB. And when Orcon are not having problems, I certainly have no complaints about the speed or stability of the connection.

But we continue to have problems. So far this year, we've lost service for 15 hours, 2 hours last Monday, and a dropout this week that required a router restart. Not a good start to the year, especially at a time when their network will be lightly loaded.

I was a geek before the word was invented!

w2krules

491 posts

Ultimate Geek

#190304 18-Jan-2009 07:14

pronosis: Destroy? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. "Open"

Stats? Log is here

Techie? He says everything is "fine". Nope, shouldn't be charged. It's a technical fault not a wiring issue (at my end atleast). And nope, no active alarm, just an old unused / disconnected one.

The D-Link router is my Mum's one, I just used it to be sure that it wasn't my Belkin.

I have noticed that using the system late at night / early morning reduces the amount of Drops!

You seem to have a lot of errors considering how little data was transmitted. Has a tech from Orcon looked at your stats? Have they put you on a more stable profile?

Might also be worth unpugging everything from the line, including the alarm, and trying the router in the master jackpoint.

Lots of people have a serviceable DSL connection with stats like yours. My SNR has always been around 6 dB, and the attenuation is probably because you're some distance from the exchange. Might be worth checking here http://www.chorus.co.nz/cabinet-notices to see if/when you're due to be connected to a cabinet.

I was a geek before the word was invented!

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pronosis

16 posts

Geek

#190336 18-Jan-2009 11:13

I'll make this clear for you guys.... THE ALARM HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED, I PHYSICALLY TOOK A DIY PLASMA CUTTER TO IT!

Now then...

w2krules:
"You seem to have a lot of errors considering how little data was transmitted. Has a tech from Orcon looked at your stats? Have they put you on a more stable profile?"

Orcon was notified on Friday, and this has since been upgraded to a level 2 technical issue/fault. Stable profile?

w2krules:
"Might also be worth unpugging everything from the line, including the alarm, and trying the router in the master jackpoint."

Plasma cutter!

"w2krules:
Lots of people have a serviceable DSL connection with stats like
yours. My SNR has always been around 6 dB, and the attenuation is
probably because you're some distance from the exchange."

Um, I can actually see the exchange right now. It's about 50 metres away...

alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#190431 18-Jan-2009 21:11

pronosis:
Um, I can actually see the exchange right now. It's about 50 metres away...

From the log you posted earlier:

pronosis:
Stats? Log is here

* Data Rate:
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Up Stream 928 (Kbps.)
Down Stream 3584 (Kbps.)

* Operation Data / Defect Indication:
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 12 dB 7 dB
Attenuation 63 dB 50 dB

Those are big attenuation numbers for someone that is about 50 metres from the exchange.
So there are really seem to be only a few possibilities:

1. faulty cable (Telecom/Chorus cable).
2. faulty cable in your home including any filters and/or splitters.
3. faulty DSLAM - but didn't they already check this - sorry if I misunderstood what you posted earlier.
4. faulty router - but you said you tried 2 different ones so unlikely?

honem

194 posts

Master Geek

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#190435 18-Jan-2009 21:41

alexx:
Those are big attenuation numbers for someone that is about 50 metres from the exchange.

Exactly.

I'm 0.8km / 800 m from the exchange. My Attenuation is 24.0DB Down and 13DB Up. Signal to Noise margin is 21.6DB down and 31.0DB down.

You're router stats make me want to huddle under the bed in fear :(

==================================
- Hone , Often accused of Excess Verbosity
==================================

BazNZ

258 posts

Ultimate Geek

#190439 18-Jan-2009 22:22

My Latency and packet loss continues gaming on International Servers. Is there anything here you guys can see that is a problem apart from my speeds being very low that should be 3000kb/s plus normally? I'm in Hamilton on Orcon's Purple MAX/MAX plan. Thanks.

w2krules

491 posts

Ultimate Geek

#190457 19-Jan-2009 00:19

Pronosis, there's something seriously wrong if you've got 50 dB attenuation and you can see the exchange! Surely there must be a wiring/hardware fault? Hard to believe that Orcon and/or Chorus can't find what's wrong.

I was a geek before the word was invented!

alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#190460 19-Jan-2009 00:39

pronosis:
Stats? Log is here

* Data Rate:
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Up Stream 928 (Kbps.)
Down Stream 3584 (Kbps.)

* Operation Data / Defect Indication:
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 12 dB 7 dB
Attenuation 63 dB 50 dB

The other interesting thing about this is (if I'm reading this right), is not only do you have huge attenuation for someone that is very close to the exchange, but your Upstream attenuation is higher than your Downstream attenuation. The attenuation of most twisted pair transmission lines gets higher as the frequencies increase. Here you seem to have the opposite - the lower frequency Upstream (63 dB) has more attenuation than the higher frequency Downstream (50 dB).

pronosis

16 posts

Geek

#190468 19-Jan-2009 08:53

Wow! Lots of replies!
But firstly; doesn’t Orcon prioritize "normal" usage over P2P usage? If this is the case then why can I keep a P2P line open for hours, but as soon as I even try to open a webpage (Firefox 3.0.5, BTW), it cuts. WTF?

Right, Replies!

Alexx:
1. Faulty cable (Telecom/Chorus cable).
2. Faulty cable in your home including any filters and/or splitters.
3. Faulty DSLAM - but didn't they already check this - sorry if I misunderstood what you posted earlier.
4. Faulty router - but you said you tried 2 different ones so unlikely?

1. Wouldn't surprise me.
2, Maybe. The line was established around 1997.
3. Pretty sure that they checked it. But it wouldn't surprise me.
4. Very unlikely. Unless... Conspiracy theory time!

Honem:
You're router stats make me want to huddle under the bed in fear :(

I’ve been under mine for 3 days now.

W2krules:
Hard to believe that Orcon and/or Chorus can't find what's wrong.

Well, most of them aren’t exactly competent, now are they?

Alexx:
The other interesting thing about this is (if I'm reading this right), is not only do you have huge attenuation for someone that is very close to the exchange, but your Upstream attenuation is higher than your Downstream attenuation. The attenuation of most twisted pair transmission lines gets higher as the frequencies increase. Here you seem to have the opposite - the lower frequency Upstream (63 dB) has more attenuation than the higher frequency Downstream (50 dB).

I’ll just have to go with you on that. I have NO idea about the extremely technical side of things.

For All future reference: I will have to use my server to upload my replies, as it is now disconnecting every time I click on a HTML link. Orcon, if you are watching this thread, please. FIX YOUR STUPID PROBLEMS AND GET MORE COMPETENT STAFF! So far I have only had 1 really helpful guy out of about 8 different customer service and technical support representatives. I am still waiting for a call from the “Level 2” technical staff. If this keeps up, I will refuse to pay for your services. This is just NOT fair. Perhaps Fair Go would like to investigate?

As of NOW I will keep a disconnection count, as follows:

Disconnections during the process of this message: 20
Disconnections today: 35
Total Disconnections since monitoring: 35

gibbo

30 posts

Geek

#190482 19-Jan-2009 10:31

Ok so when you say P2P keeps going yet web browsing keeps causing a disconnect,....
Are you using something like Bit Torrent - it uses pure IP addresses not domain names from DNS. Is your borwser timing out, in firefox down in the bottom left corner it will sit o Looking up www.somename.co.nz for example.

This is DNS timing out or dissapearing. PPP now seams to be staying up a lot better, but now DNS is at times up and down like a .......

Starting to wonder if not being able to find the radius server for PPP and now DNS servers is linked...

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