Please enlighten me about LLU Vs Wholesale

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Please enlighten me about LLU Vs Wholesale

Adamww

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#115738 4-Apr-2013 22:30

Hello,
I have read many posts here including Sbiddles blog about this subject so am starting to get an idea of how this interweb stuff works but I'm affraid it is still a little over my head so sorry if you guys are sick of explaining this stuff.
Here's my dilemma:
I have been an orcon customer for 10years or so, I'm on a LLU connection and my neighbourhood (mt eden) has been cabinetised so i'm suffering from the famous mid span injection thingy. Slowly over the last couple of years my speed has dropped further and further and now my down stream sync rate is about 2600-2900kbps at best. I had a master filter fitted with dedicated ADSL jack etc a few months back which helped a little at the time but things are just getting worse.

So after chasing orcon support for many weeks they now tell me my poor speeds are because i'm on a LLU connection and if I want faster internet I have two choices - migrate to a wholesale connection which is $19 more per month with less data or change to genius which is only $5 more a month than my existing plan but I will have to loose my monitored alarm so not ideal either. My current plan is $70 for 30GB.

So now my questions: will genius really be any faster? how is this done without changing to a wholesale connection?
What if I change to another provider - would something like flip still be via LLU and slow?

Any suggestions appreciated.

PeterReader

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#793568 4-Apr-2013 22:30

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

coffeebaron

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#793580 4-Apr-2013 22:39

Tell them this is their issue, their bad choice for sticking you on LLU when they knew well in advanced that you would be cabinetised. Tell them to fix it, and ask them why they have been giving you poor performance connection for the last couple of years.
Very bad service Orcon! It is just not acceptable and I am seeing ths over and over again.
Orcon MOVE YOUR CABINETISED CUSTOMERS TO WHOLESALE

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yitz

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#793607 4-Apr-2013 23:21

Genius customers now have the option of having traditional voice provisioned over POTS/LLU and ADSL2+ broadband over Wholesale EUBA (provided of course they have LLU at your exchange which in your case they do). Genius is delivered exclusively over Wholesale EUBA in non-LLU coverage areas.

I'm sure one of their reps on here will get in contact with you about this.

sidefx

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#793616 4-Apr-2013 23:26

When i had similar issues a while back with vodafone (in mt eden area too actually) they moved me to wholesale at no extra cost though it did take a fair number of followups and a bit of cajoling. I would do as coffeebaron suggests and if they won't budge move to an ISP that doesn't have LLU equipment. Telecom does $85 for 50GB which would be less than the 70+19 for quite a bit more data

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sbiddle

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#793645 5-Apr-2013 06:24

In the early days of LLU some ISP's set pricing that was too low to be sustainable.

coffeebaron

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#793670 5-Apr-2013 08:22

And now with the Chorus SAT gone, it makes it easier for ISP's to continue to give their customers sub standard internet.

Rural IT and Broadband support.

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Zeon

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#793702 5-Apr-2013 09:40

I would move to Genius but tell them you won't go into a contract. You can use monitored alarm on it but you may need to change to IP based alarm monitoring which a number of companies offer.

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nickb800

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#793729 5-Apr-2013 10:16

Easy - switch to Genius but ask them to supply your voice from their gear at the exchange rather than via VoIP

Adamww

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#793739 5-Apr-2013 10:27

Thanks for the replies so far. I have already tried fairly hard to convince them that it is their responsibility as Coffeebarron suggests. My line to them was something like "I have contracted them to supply a broadband connection for a fixed term, so if they cant continue to provide a connection with any reasonable likeness to a typical broadband speed then it should be their responsability to provide what i'm paying for".
That fell on deaf ears however, although the salesman/tech?? was a reasonably pleasant person he seemed to be pretty adamant that it wouldnt happen and I got the feeling he was trying to suggest I would be better changing to another provider but without actually saying that.

So I'm still a bit undecided yet what I will do and havent researched all my options, but at least it seems my feelings of being a bit ripped off were justified.

Nebbie

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#793792 5-Apr-2013 12:00

Pretty bad they have limited options for you.....

Now your closer to a Cabinet defiantly make sure you move onto eUBA not bUBA I think Orcon use eUBA standard these days, although due to some ASAM's still floating around bUBA still exists.

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Adamww

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#795179 8-Apr-2013 19:15

OK, thanks for the replys everyone. I got nowhere with Orcon so right now it looks like I'm going to change to Telecom at the end of the month when my billing period is closer. When I asked Orcon about changing to Genius but having my phone & alarm still over LLU as Yitz suggested they said it wasnt possible (dont think they really knew).
So at least the staff at Telecom where easy to get hold of and could answer my questions.

sbiddle

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#795264 8-Apr-2013 21:39

Adamww: OK, thanks for the replys everyone. I got nowhere with Orcon so right now it looks like I'm going to change to Telecom at the end of the month when my billing period is closer. When I asked Orcon about changing to Genius but having my phone & alarm still over LLU as Yitz suggested they said it wasnt possible (dont think they really knew).
So at least the staff at Telecom where easy to get hold of and could answer my questions.

Move your alarm to IP. You'll ultimately have to do this anyway.

Adamww

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#795288 8-Apr-2013 22:05

sbiddle: Move your alarm to IP. You'll ultimately have to do this anyway.

Sorry to sound negative but IP coms modules start at about $400 fitted, then the monitoring costs about an extra $10 per month. Seems a bit overkill when all I need is basic broadband (hopefully a bit faster than the 2600kbps I get from orcon) and POTS.
Telecom among others have assured me they can supply a wholesale connection for less $ than orcon so I will go that way.

sbiddle

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#795326 9-Apr-2013 06:01

Adamww:
sbiddle: Move your alarm to IP. You'll ultimately have to do this anyway.

Sorry to sound negative but IP coms modules start at about $400 fitted, then the monitoring costs about an extra $10 per month. Seems a bit overkill when all I need is basic broadband (hopefully a bit faster than the 2600kbps I get from orcon) and POTS.
Telecom among others have assured me they can supply a wholesale connection for less $ than orcon so I will go that way.

I suggest you move alarm companies if they're going to rip you off like that.

You're still ultimately going to have to move IP regardless. If you're on an Orcon ULL exchange yuor Orcon "POTS" connection will be VoIP anyway using voice from the exchange and UBA from the cabinet.