Orcon and IPv6

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kiwibob1

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#204672 12-Oct-2016 14:26

I just had an interesting chat with one of the sales people at Orcon.

The lady I spoke to had no idea what IPv6 was (or indeed IPv4) which is more than a little disappointing from a major ISP in 2016. Anyway she went off to find out and came back and told me that Orcon don't offer IPv6 because theirs is a "residential service".

Pity.

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#1649790 12-Oct-2016 14:31

I believe Orcon are rolling out IPV6 at the moment.

The last I'd heard was that connections on their "old" backend had been IPV6 enabled; and the "new" backend would be done "shortly".

Perhaps @Sounddude would like to comment?

Zeon

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#1649808 12-Oct-2016 14:53

We have had IPv6 on a "enterprise" fibre connection and at their datacentre for years. Works well and is reliable.

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Wayward

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#1649844 12-Oct-2016 16:19

I don't know why you'd ask a sales person a question like that, all the know is plans they need to sell not how a network is built.

why are you worried about the Orcon network being IPv6 ready for anyway?

As a end user it shouldn't really matter, as long as you have a unique identifier to connect to the internet and can browse etc its all good? when IPv6 is a must have all ISP's in NZ will be ready

M3rk

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#1649863 12-Oct-2016 16:48

Wayward:

I don't know why you'd ask a sales person a question like that, all the know is plans they need to sell not how a network is built.

why are you worried about the Orcon network being IPv6 ready for anyway?

As a end user it shouldn't really matter, as long as you have a unique identifier to connect to the internet and can browse etc its all good? when IPv6 is a must have all ISP's in NZ will be ready

Please tell me you're joking.

The last IPv4 address block was assigned in 2011 so the transition to IPv6 is already a must due to this reason alone.

Not to mention the numerous benefits the IPv6 protocol has over IPv4, such as: more efficient routing, more efficient packet processing, no more DHCP, encrypted packets by default and numerous other benefits.

Also people on this forum want IPv6 from Orcon because this site is called geekzone :)

MadEngineer

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#1649878 12-Oct-2016 17:20

https://help.orcon.net.nz/Technical-Support/Broadband/85263095/Do-you-support-IPv6.htm

Kek.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

kiwibob1

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#1649882 12-Oct-2016 17:41

Wayward:

I don't know why you'd ask a sales person a question like that, all the know is plans they need to sell not how a network is built.

why are you worried about the Orcon network being IPv6 ready for anyway?

As a end user it shouldn't really matter, as long as you have a unique identifier to connect to the internet and can browse etc its all good? when IPv6 is a must have all ISP's in NZ will be ready

Gosh. Let me start by saying that basic product knowledge is a must for a sales person and while I'm willing to accept that IPv4 IPv6 might be a bit much at the front line the second level should surely know? Imagine an airline sales person who couldn't tell you the difference between an economy and a premium economy seat. Perhaps a better example would be the sales person at Repco who didn't know the difference between a conventional spark plug and its' more expensive iridium equivalent. Perhaps I'm hoping for too much?

Anyway there are already IPv6 only internet connections (google it) not many I'll grant but if you are IPv4 only you can't see them. Period. So no, an IPv4 unique identifier isn't good enough.

IPv6 has been around for over 20 years and we ran out of IPv4 addresses years ago. Almost every piece of consumer IT equipment has dual stack enabled by default and has had for a long time. Certainly every piece of ISP network equipment has dual stack out of the box plus the IPv6 addresses are abundant and free. No excuse for not implementing here.

Like it or not dual stack is the future and for larger ISP's it will take some effort to implement however many are still working with the vile carrier grade NAT rather than getting on with solving the problem. Sadly here in NZ many of our ISP's are dragging the chain (think WXCs' closed trial that has been running for over 7 years) and I think that it's up to those of us who actually understand the problem and know what to ask for to actually do so.

From a personal perspective I run several websites which are dual stack and I need to be able to test that they work on IPv4 and IPv6 so that's why I asked the question.

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kiwibob1

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#1649883 12-Oct-2016 17:43

MadEngineer: https://help.orcon.net.nz/Technical-Support/Broadband/85263095/Do-you-support-IPv6.htm

Kek.

Excellent, Thanks for the link.

I'll put them back on the shortlist

Zeon

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#1649885 12-Oct-2016 17:51

Wayward:

I don't know why you'd ask a sales person a question like that, all the know is plans they need to sell not how a network is built.

why are you worried about the Orcon network being IPv6 ready for anyway?

As a end user it shouldn't really matter, as long as you have a unique identifier to connect to the internet and can browse etc its all good? when IPv6 is a must have all ISP's in NZ will be ready

Lol wut?

Most of our network is running IPv6 only now. All internal systems are only accessed via IPv6 and we only have IPv4 for customers via dual stack when connecting externally.

I can access everything directly while at home over IPv6 (of course always using encrypted protocols) without mucking around with VPN etc. and SLAAC is heaps easier to manage for addressing.... so my home carrier needs to support it...

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MadEngineer

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#1649894 12-Oct-2016 18:45

kiwibob1:

MadEngineer: https://help.orcon.net.nz/Technical-Support/Broadband/85263095/Do-you-support-IPv6.htm

Kek.

Excellent, Thanks for the link.

I'll put them back on the shortlist

too bad it's lies

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

Wayward

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#1649898 12-Oct-2016 18:51

kiwibob1:

Wayward:

I don't know why you'd ask a sales person a question like that, all the know is plans they need to sell not how a network is built.

why are you worried about the Orcon network being IPv6 ready for anyway?

As a end user it shouldn't really matter, as long as you have a unique identifier to connect to the internet and can browse etc its all good? when IPv6 is a must have all ISP's in NZ will be ready

Gosh. Let me start by saying that basic product knowledge is a must for a sales person and while I'm willing to accept that IPv4 IPv6 might be a bit much at the front line the second level should surely know? Imagine an airline sales person who couldn't tell you the difference between an economy and a premium economy seat. Perhaps a better example would be the sales person at Repco who didn't know the difference between a conventional spark plug and its' more expensive iridium equivalent. Perhaps I'm hoping for too much?

Anyway there are already IPv6 only internet connections (google it) not many I'll grant but if you are IPv4 only you can't see them. Period. So no, an IPv4 unique identifier isn't good enough.

IPv6 has been around for over 20 years and we ran out of IPv4 addresses years ago. Almost every piece of consumer IT equipment has dual stack enabled by default and has had for a long time. Certainly every piece of ISP network equipment has dual stack out of the box plus the IPv6 addresses are abundant and free. No excuse for not implementing here.

Like it or not dual stack is the future and for larger ISP's it will take some effort to implement however many are still working with the vile carrier grade NAT rather than getting on with solving the problem. Sadly here in NZ many of our ISP's are dragging the chain (think WXCs' closed trial that has been running for over 7 years) and I think that it's up to those of us who actually understand the problem and know what to ask for to actually do so.

From a personal perspective I run several websites which are dual stack and I need to be able to test that they work on IPv4 and IPv6 so that's why I asked the question.

I know it is too much for residential TELCO sales to get their head around a low level network config/s.

That is too high of an expectation however a good sales person should be able to find out but sadly 99% sales people are focused on numbers and not learning how a network runs or really going out of their way - that's just reality.

I agree with your other comments relating to IPv6

Wayward

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#1649903 12-Oct-2016 19:08

Zeon:

Wayward:

I don't know why you'd ask a sales person a question like that, all the know is plans they need to sell not how a network is built.

why are you worried about the Orcon network being IPv6 ready for anyway?

As a end user it shouldn't really matter, as long as you have a unique identifier to connect to the internet and can browse etc its all good? when IPv6 is a must have all ISP's in NZ will be ready

Lol wut?

Most of our network is running IPv6 only now. All internal systems are only accessed via IPv6 and we only have IPv4 for customers via dual stack when connecting externally.

I can access everything directly while at home over IPv6 (of course always using encrypted protocols) without mucking around with VPN etc. and SLAAC is heaps easier to manage for addressing.... so my home carrier needs to support it...

What is the issue if the ISP doesn't support IPv6? wouldn't the router manage the packet through anyway or is an IPv6 packet from a LAN passed out of the router as IPv6 - sorry I don't understand.

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tardtasticx

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#1649904 12-Oct-2016 19:09

Wayward:

kiwibob1:

Wayward:

...
...

I know it is too much for residential TELCO sales to get their head around a low level network config/s.

That is too high of an expectation however a good sales person should be able to find out but sadly 99% sales people are focused on numbers and not learning how a network runs or really going out of their way - that's just reality.

I agree with your other comments relating to IPv6

I think more like management thinks it isn't relevant for them to know this information, since most customers won't require said info. If the info you want isn't readily available, it's like that for a reason and it isn't the fault of the rep you've been speaking to.

OP if you need IPv6 so badly why not move to an ISP that you know supports it? Personally it sounds like you're looking for some sort of business grade solution? That'd be where you need to head for the time being. Enabling IPv6 is not just flicking a switch to turn it on network wide, I can assure you of that.

Wayward

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#1649906 12-Oct-2016 19:12

M3rk:

Wayward:

I don't know why you'd ask a sales person a question like that, all the know is plans they need to sell not how a network is built.

why are you worried about the Orcon network being IPv6 ready for anyway?

As a end user it shouldn't really matter, as long as you have a unique identifier to connect to the internet and can browse etc its all good? when IPv6 is a must have all ISP's in NZ will be ready

Please tell me you're joking.

The last IPv4 address block was assigned in 2011 so the transition to IPv6 is already a must due to this reason alone.

Not to mention the numerous benefits the IPv6 protocol has over IPv4, such as: more efficient routing, more efficient packet processing, no more DHCP, encrypted packets by default and numerous other benefits.

Also people on this forum want IPv6 from Orcon because this site is called geekzone :)