Some recorded Freeview TV shows will not play over network to PC

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mprother

13 posts

Geek

#114703 28-Feb-2013 09:43

I have a Panasonic DMR-BW880 Blu-ray Recorder connected to my home network. I often watch Freeview recorded content from my Win 7 PC, also connected to the network, using either WMP or VLC.

When I first purchased the BW880 several years ago there was the odd recorded program that could not be viewed from my PC using either VLC or WMP but nowadays more and more TV shows refuse to be played over the network. I have had some codec issues in the past with WMP eg see the video but no audio, but using VLC usually sorted this. In this case if I use VLC, the content streams but there is no video or audio and WMP just exits with an error message. The other interesting point is that if I look at the properties of the offending TV show in WMP (right click, properties) there is no value showing for the video bit-rate (in fact most properties are missing). Recorded TV shows that do show the video bit-rate (WMP, properties) play happily over the network.

I have attempted to copy the files of these ‘non-playable’ TV shows from the BW880 hard drive to my PC and also burned them to Blu-ray disk (file extensions are .m2ts or .tts) but these files refuse to be played by VLC, WMP or any other media player. Yet, they will play quite happily through the BW880 (ie from Blu-ray disk or internal hard drive).

If I copy a recorded TV show that I can view over the network from the BW880 to my PC or burn it to disk then these copied files (eg show.m2ts) will play quite happily using WMP or VLC from my PC hard drive or from the Blu-ray disc in a Blu-ray drive on my PC.

I don't believe this is a codec issue or similar but rather some sort of copy protection that only allows the recorded Freeview TV show to be played back on the device that it was recorded on. Is anyone aware of anything like this? If this is the case it kind of makes DLNA useless as it prevents viewing of the recorded show on other devices over the network.

I would appreciate any comments/feedback. And is there any way of removing this limitation so that I can view this recorded content on PC’s elsewhere in my house.

Thanks

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782 posts

Ultimate Geek

#771712 28-Feb-2013 14:13

Panasonic are currently under investigation by the Commerce Commission for misleading advertising over their DLNA claims. The problem has existed for years and as more people move to digital it will only increase. It's good something concrete be done and Panasonic obliged to fess up on what does what and why. Not only attempting to watch something in another room, but also streaming video content to DLNA enabled devices.

At the moment (and this is only targeted at Panasonic DVDRs, I don't know about other brands or PVRs) you can't tell in advance what programs has DTCP-IP applied, or not. It's frustrating to record something to watch in another room, then find you can't when you go to play it. The only way I've found around this is to downsample the program to Standard Def then it works fine. A ridiculous requirement here as the other room is SD only.

The files from a DMR 380 are _BDY. They can be renamed to .m2ts and play in the usual things, but protected ones play in nothing and don't even show details in MediaInfo (that's a good free program for getting video specs). I've got nowhere trying to find what or why they're like that.

Good luck! Perhaps eventually an affordable capture card for HDMi will turn up.

Cheers - Kirk

mprother

13 posts

Geek

#771766 28-Feb-2013 15:08

Thanks for your comments ADKM. So are you suggesting that the content providers (TV networks) are building this DTCP-IP into some of the programs broadcast on Freeview but the Panasonic recorders are not handling the DTCP-IP correctly?

Are you aware of the existence of any protection protocol like the "only playable on the device that recorded it" that I suggested?

ADKM

782 posts

Ultimate Geek

#771779 28-Feb-2013 15:40

mprother: So are you suggesting that the content providers (TV networks) are building this DTCP-IP into some of the programs broadcast on Freeview but the Panasonic recorders are not handling the DTCP-IP correctly?

This is a direct quote from Panasonic tech support:

DTCP-IP, is the method of copyright protection used within the context of DLNA and media streaming

In spite of best efforts I've never been able to find out much more, e.g. is it something embedded in the signal, or something added by Panasonic. In fact their reply was

if DivX format content does not contain DTCP-IP, then that content cannot be streamed

which is garbage. DivX is not the format that's recorded. And I've dozens of DivX files that stream and never been near DTCP-IP.

Are you aware of the existence of any protection protocol like the "only playable on the device that recorded it" that I suggested?

I know that UK Panasonic Blu Ray recorders have a "copy once" option. It's not AFAIK in mine (the 380 can't copy HiDef to optical disk ).

Can't wait till more people have start trying to use DLNA - then hit the roof as few things work as expected.

Cheers - Kirk

B1GGLZ

1960 posts

Uber Geek

#771784 28-Feb-2013 15:56

I think it is a Panasonic problem.
I have the BWT720 and I can copy files to the PC OK but only the SD ones can be played or edited etc.
All the HD ones copy OK but nothing will play them. Anything recorded from Prime or other SD channels or via A/V input from Sky is OK but so far only one recorded off the HD channels has worked (probably SD content?).
Most recent trouble I've run into is all the discs I have backed up with my PC software wont play in the BWT720 or my BD110 so I've had to change to new backup software. The problem seems to be that both players are 3D capable. My BW880 and other non-3D recorders/players used to play them OK. Maybe Panasonic will sort it out someday?
Your best solution is to get a media player. My A C Ryan plays anything I throw at it over the network.

bagheera

390 posts

Ultimate Geek

#771796 28-Feb-2013 16:11

you most like hitting section 6.2 of freeview transmission rules http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9348/freeview_dtt_transmission_rules_2_1.pdf

ie you are trying to stream HD content to a none HDCP device and any media company will tell you that this is a big no no - protect the content, stuff the customer, and they then wonder why people pirate stuff.

B1GGLZ

1960 posts

Uber Geek

#771804 28-Feb-2013 16:28

bagheera: you most like hitting section 6.2 of freeview transmission rules http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9348/freeview_dtt_transmission_rules_2_1.pdf

ie you are trying to stream HD content to a none HDCP device and any media company will tell you that this is a big no no - protect the content, stuff the customer, and they then wonder why people pirate stuff.

Thanks
Hadn't read that document. That would seem to be the problem. Wonder why then you can actually transfer HD content to the PC with Twonky server but not do anything with it once transferred? If I understand 6.2 it shouldn't be possible to transfer an HD file?
On the old BW880 I couldn't transfer except with a much older version of Twonky.
The Blu Ray discs which you burn in the Recorder can of course be backed up or copied on a PC so why bother with protection in the first plaace?.

bagheera

390 posts

Ultimate Geek

#771808 28-Feb-2013 16:35

B1GGLZ:.
The Blu Ray discs which you burn in the Recorder can of course be backed up or copied on a PC so why bother with protection in the first plaace?.

to tick the box for broadcasting rights in HD that the likes of Disney, HBO etc have in there contract - the bluray disk will still be encrypted, but lots of software out there to remove it for your pc backups.

bagheera

390 posts

Ultimate Geek

#771809 28-Feb-2013 16:44

B1GGLZ:If I understand 6.2 it shouldn't be possible to transfer an HD file?

you can transfer a HD file if it meet one of these DRM recommends

• HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) on HDMI outputs.
• DTCP (Digital Transmission Content Protection) on network interfaces.
• AACS (Advanced Access Content System) on removable media.
• Encryption and binding to the receiver using AES128 or Triple DES.

of-cause this for freeview approved devices - if you got a none freeview device, that can record the DTT stream then they do not need to conform to this. (like our mythtv recorder using a DTT card)

mprother

13 posts

Geek

#771857 28-Feb-2013 17:49

Ok, so in my case with the BW880 I can copy some HD content to my PC or burn it to Blu ray and successfully play those files on my PC. But other HD content will not play over the network, nor from copied files nor burned to disk.

To me this indicates that the Content provider has done something to the content to prevent 'watching' it on other devices (rather than a problem with the BW880 or something that Freeview have done.

B1GGLZ

1960 posts

Uber Geek

#771898 28-Feb-2013 19:41

mprother: Ok, so in my case with the BW880 I can copy some HD content to my PC or burn it to Blu ray and successfully play those files on my PC. But other HD content will not play over the network, nor from copied files nor burned to disk.

To me this indicates that the Content provider has done something to the content to prevent 'watching' it on other devices (rather than a problem with the BW880 or something that Freeview have done.

That would seem to be the case. Just been browsing my Panasonic BWT720 manual as I notice that all my HD recordings on the HDD show an Icon next to them in that indicates "Title cannot be played from DLNA Client not compatible with DTCP-IP". Didn't get this on the BW880. Looking at the page referring to using DLNA functions it says "The Titles with access restriction (e.g., copy restriction) signals sent from broadcasters are not available for this function". This would explain why I can transfer the files but nothing will play them. Incidentally the SD files show as .tts video but the HD show as an .exe application with .tts video in brackets.
Obviously Freeview include access restriction signals in the transmission of most if not all of their HD content. No wonder people look to workarounds and piracy.

bagheera

390 posts

Ultimate Geek

#772057 1-Mar-2013 08:32

the dtt stream is not encrypted, but the is a flag in the mheg stream that say do not let HD copy with out encrypt. to get freeviewnz approve, then you got to listen to this flag, all the big name pvr are fteeviewnz approved so do this, but there are some pvr that are not freeviewnz approved that will let you copy HD off / play back over the network

sbiddle

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#772065 1-Mar-2013 08:37

bagheera: the dtt stream is not encrypted, but the is a flag in the mheg stream that say do not let HD copy with out encrypt. to get freeviewnz approve, then you got to listen to this flag, all the big name pvr are fteeviewnz approved so do this, but there are some pvr that are not freeviewnz approved that will let you copy HD off / play back over the network

Just a minor correction, the flag is in the SDT table. Freeview were also planning on broadcasting this in the EIT table, I don't know if this has occured yet.

JimmyH

2677 posts

Uber Geek

#772477 1-Mar-2013 21:16

bagheera: the dtt stream is not encrypted, but the is a flag in the mheg stream that say do not let HD copy with out encrypt. to get freeviewnz approve, then you got to listen to this flag, all the big name pvr are fteeviewnz approved so do this, but there are some pvr that are not freeviewnz approved that will let you copy HD off / play back over the network

Can you advise which ones. I'm really grumpy to read this thread, having recently brought a Panny XW390 - principally because I had just finished a network rebuild incorporating media players that I want to stream recordings to. If it really is the case that Panasonic has a gimped DLNA feature set, I may try and take it back for a refund.

I second the poster who observed that it's no wonder people just resort to piracy.

Dunnersfella

3810 posts

Uber Geek

#772487 1-Mar-2013 21:50

Interestingly enough, I talked to one fellow who said he couldn't get recordings to work on his '30 series' Panasonic TV, but everything would work on his 2012 '50 series'...
I do know that many shows are broken for those people who use the latest versions of Twonky. However the top of the line Panasonic BluRay player (DMP-BBT01GNK) can also happily stream the HD content. Odd.

Skolink

1081 posts

Uber Geek

#772515 1-Mar-2013 22:44

Interesting reading. I'm glad we record with a TiVo (non Freeview approved).
I've just come across the joys of Cinavia trying to use DLNA on my new Samsung Bluray player. Oh well, we bought it primarily as a BD player, looks like I'll be going back to XBMC for playing files. Oh, and FF / RW don't work either :P

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