Orcon+ Network Launched (LLU)

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#120984 4-Apr-2008 09:09

Edit: sorry, just read your post more carefully.

Sounds like you are trying to go on to a wholesale plan? My guess (without looking into it further) is that your line is one that is due to be cabenitised.

Feel free to PM me your username and I will have someone look into your case.

Duncan Blair
Group Product Manager
Orcon

CatJ

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#120997 4-Apr-2008 09:49

http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=cabenitised&meta

duncanblair

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#121044 4-Apr-2008 13:01

Sorry, cabinetisation (it's a made up word, so not sure how to spell it!) is the process that Telecom is going through installing roadside cabinets that act as little 'mini-exhanges' serving a small number of customers from a location closer to the customers house than the exchange. This effectively cuts the copper from the customer to the exchange - stranding the customer and our investment. This is why we are not connecting these customers on LLU - we are putting them on existing wholesale products.

In your case it looks like in lieu of being able to give you LLU products (perhaps your line is being cabinetised?) we tried to put you on wholesale products, but there was no ports left, this happens occasionally.

Where abouts do you live?

There is more about cabinetisation on the Chorus website: http://www.chorus.co.nz/cabinetisation

Duncan Blair
Group Product Manager
Orcon

CatJ

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#121089 4-Apr-2008 14:53

Thank you for the explanation, however Orcon advertises it as being available now, and gave me no other choice, and then tell me after 7 weeks, that I have to wait until someone else in Browns Bay cancels their broadband (!!!) before I can transfer mine over. This with absolutely no hint of apology for the time wasted, the false information I have been given over and over again (I have emails which directly contradict information on Orcon's website) and no real information as to why.

Bottom line is, I don't care about what cabinetisation is, and the technical details anymore. I want to know what Orcon is going to do about offering me no alternative other than a service they cannot provide, why I have paid for nothing, and why I should continue to be a customer with Orcon?

richms

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#121111 4-Apr-2008 16:03

duncanblair: Sorry, cabinetisation (it's a made up word, so not sure how to spell it!) is the process that Telecom is going through installing roadside cabinets that act as little 'mini-exhanges' serving a small number of customers from a location closer to the customers house than the exchange. This effectively cuts the copper from the customer to the exchange - stranding the customer and our investment. This is why we are not connecting these customers on LLU - we are putting them on existing wholesale products.

To me being stuck on a long copper loop with low speeds it being stranded. I cannot understand your negative views to the instalation of cabinets, unless you are not concerned about customers getting the best speeds possible.

Richard rich.ms

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#121114 4-Apr-2008 16:14

I guess its the certain internet providers showing their true colours (and I don't mean purple and red). With the responses like the above it appears that they don't care about increasing speeds for New Zealanders (despite their marketing-speak saying otherwise) but rather just reinvent the wheel / gain market share / increase margins.

It got hashed out in a previous thread with Paul from Vodafone as well.

At the end of the day, there are providers that 'get it' and those who don't.....

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#121122 4-Apr-2008 16:33

A quick word about cabinetisation in general, from my sick bed (cough cough).

Putting aside for the moment whether it's a Good Thing (TM) or not, Telecom is introducing cabinets throughout the network, at an astonishing rate. As Duncan says, they're mini-exchanges that will enable customers on long-run copper to achieve decent connection speeds without having to move closer to the exchange.

Having said that, there are currently no regulations in place around how much Telecom will charge the LLU access seekers, let alone what we'll be charged for (space in the cabinets, building new cabinets, fibre backhaul from the cabinets and so on). We have no regulations around timely access to cabinets should maintenance work need to be carried out or even whether we can legally open a Telecom cabinet to put equipment in in the first place.

All this is currently before the Commerce Commission (it's called sub-loop unbundling) and until we see the pricing and access terms and conditions, nobody is unbundling any cabinets. Vodafone has gone back to the drawing board in terms of business case for sub-loop unbundling because currently we have no idea of the costs so we can't build a case for it.

That will come, with time, but for now, LLU is about exchanges not cabinets. Which means those exchanges that do get cabinetised are essentially off limits for LLU for the time being.

Hope that helps, and hopefully I've kept my own views on why these particular exchanges are being cabinetised quietly out of it

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

duncanblair

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#121784 7-Apr-2008 14:33

Thanks Paul, that was a good summary, and one that Orcon in general would agree with.

It is important to note that we (speaking purely on behalf of Orcon obviously) are not against cabenitisation. In fact for those customers that aren't getting great speeds the theory is great! However for the reasons that Paul outlined above (+ more) we have some reservations about the way in which it is being carried out.

In addition there are some cabinets being installed in surprisingly close proximity to exchanges, which would seem to suggest that this is not just being done to improve speeds (working on the assumption "the closer you are, the faster you are").

If these concerns are addressed through the sub-loop unbundling process in particular then we will be happy participants.

The end goal is for better broadband for all NZers, and while on the surface cabinetisation seems to provide this the danger is that long term we return to the same situation we were in pre-unbndling with effecitively one provider.

Cheers,
Duncan Blair
Group Product Manager
Orcon

CatJ

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#121885 7-Apr-2008 20:18

For those that may be interested, after all the kerfuffle, Orcon finally called me today to tell me it would cost me $2000 to have a copper wire installed from my house to the exchange in order to get any type of broadband connection at all (What? I thought the ports were full?)
As it is now, I am sitting at home, on my laptop, with my new broadband connection through Xtra, 48 hours after signing up through their website, and 15 minutes after calling the very friendly, very helpful Xtra customer service consultant.

Who would have thought, Telecom with great service and Orcon with no service....

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#121957 8-Apr-2008 01:35

It cant be that Xtra have priority access push their own customers to the top of waiter queues. That would a very serious accusation if it could be proven, so I think you should contact Orcon with as much information as possible so they can take action if its warranted. This is precisely the type of practise that Telecom's new Chorus and Wholesale divisions were setup to prevent, and it should not be possible for Telecom Retail to overide systems that are presumably designed to give fair access to the network for all providers. I would be interested if anyone with Telecom experience chose to comment on the service order system.

I also think its quite likely that another 48 hours would have seen Telecom connect Orcon customers at the same time as its own. Was it waiting for available ADSL ports or street wiring? It would be worth investigating though.

Time to find a new industry!

JohndNZ

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#121977 8-Apr-2008 07:06

excuese any ignorance here - as i'm not 100% onthe fine details - but is it possible that all of ORCONS "slots" were taken up
i.e. in any exchange i'm sure that there is a limited ORCON exchange with say 1000 out of telecoms 10,000 for the area -
so in my head ORCONS exchange was full but telecoms still had space?

???my 10c :)

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#121984 8-Apr-2008 07:17

A better question is why did Orcon say that they were going to charge $2000? Particularly if you already had the cabling intact.

Since they run the over the same copper, you shouldn't need any new wiring or anything like that. And if you could sign up to Xtra, you'd be able to sign up to Orcon (or any other provider). Perhaps they misunderstood what product you were after?

Sounds like a mistake on the Orcon end.

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#121988 8-Apr-2008 07:20

Perhaps? But it's really hard to tell when you get 4 different reasons - which one do you pick? I might have believed Orcon if I had had a straight or consistent answer.
Or maybe the 'alternative' providers just blame Telecom for their incompetence?