Tivo CGA Claim October 2017

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tdgeek

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#1753340 2-Apr-2017 18:52

minimoke:

tdgeek:

\Stop making stuff up.

Bold 1

Where do you get that from??? Its a well known US service, its not marketed as a Rolls Royce deduce. Your upping your commentary to add artificial weight to it

Bold 2

Product Lifetime means Product Lifetime, not box lifetime. Box lifetime is ridiculous, mine might fail after 3 years, another after 12

I dont make stuff up

Bold 1 "rolls Royce" may be a bit of hyperbole on my part. Would you settle for "world class entertainment device". Or maybe when I say "world class" I ought to say "TiVo represents a revolution in the way Kiwis watch television" or howabaout "an outstanding result for the consumer.". Some of its here: http://tvnz.co.nz/content/2997521 and with all the features described I think I can be forgiven for calling it Rolls Royce when compared with the other Toyota products on the market at the time. And for the record thats not my commentary - thats Telecoms and Hybrids to add weight to their launch. Seems like they were all talk and no trousers eh?

Bold 2 "Coverage period: Includes a "Product Lifetime Subscription" to the TiVo service which covers the life of the TiVo box you buy, not the life of the subscriber.' There are loads of references but heres one: https://www.tivo.com/buytivo/tivopriceplans/items/plandtls_S00031_ajaxpopup.html

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box. The brand is popular in the US, due to the cool TIVO service

The box is still working. So thats no issue. If it fails, you could talk to Spark, but its well out of warranty. So your lifetime subscription is still in place, and when it isn't, talk to Hybrid, failing that, talk to TIVO.

gregmcc

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#1753344 2-Apr-2017 18:56

tdgeek:

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box. The brand is popular in the US, due to the cool TIVO service

The box is still working. So thats no issue. If it fails, you could talk to Spark, but its well out of warranty. So your lifetime subscription is still in place, and when it isn't, talk to Hybrid, failing that, talk to TIVO.

You left one really important bit off the end!, the 1st two are the imported and manufacturer as you stated, but the CGA also allows to hold responsible the Retailer, that would be spark

minimoke

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#1753349 2-Apr-2017 19:08

tdgeek:

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box.

From the Commerce Commission: "Any claims made to bolster the image of a business or its products or services must be accurate"

tdgeek

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#1753352 2-Apr-2017 19:24

gregmcc:

tdgeek:

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box. The brand is popular in the US, due to the cool TIVO service

The box is still working. So thats no issue. If it fails, you could talk to Spark, but its well out of warranty. So your lifetime subscription is still in place, and when it isn't, talk to Hybrid, failing that, talk to TIVO.

You left one really important bit off the end!, the 1st two are the imported and manufacturer as you stated, but the CGA also allows to hold responsible the Retailer, that would be spark

Except the box is not at fault, the Tivo service is what is ending, and Telecoms T+Cs specifically stated that Telecom T+C covers the hardware and Hybrid T+C's cover the service.

So its made up of two parts, and the same in the US, buy the box then buy the Tivo service. Here it was provided with a lifetime Tivo service, and the Tivo service is the problem.

gregmcc

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#1753354 2-Apr-2017 19:30

tdgeek:

gregmcc:

tdgeek:

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box. The brand is popular in the US, due to the cool TIVO service

The box is still working. So thats no issue. If it fails, you could talk to Spark, but its well out of warranty. So your lifetime subscription is still in place, and when it isn't, talk to Hybrid, failing that, talk to TIVO.

You left one really important bit off the end!, the 1st two are the imported and manufacturer as you stated, but the CGA also allows to hold responsible the Retailer, that would be spark

Except the box is not at fault, the Tivo service is what is ending, and Telecoms T+Cs specifically stated that Telecom T+C covers the hardware and Hybrid T+C's cover the service.

So its made up of two parts, and the same in the US, buy the box then buy the Tivo service. Here it was provided with a lifetime Tivo service, and the Tivo service is the problem.

You've been down this path before, various people who purchased tivo's from telecom (including myself) have no record of theses T&C's PRIOR to the sale, what ever you or telecom point out after the sale are invalid under the fair trading act.

mattwnz

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#1753357 2-Apr-2017 19:33

tdgeek:

gregmcc:

tdgeek:

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box. The brand is popular in the US, due to the cool TIVO service

The box is still working. So thats no issue. If it fails, you could talk to Spark, but its well out of warranty. So your lifetime subscription is still in place, and when it isn't, talk to Hybrid, failing that, talk to TIVO.

You left one really important bit off the end!, the 1st two are the imported and manufacturer as you stated, but the CGA also allows to hold responsible the Retailer, that would be spark

Except the box is not at fault, the Tivo service is what is ending, and Telecoms T+Cs specifically stated that Telecom T+C covers the hardware and Hybrid T+C's cover the service.

So its made up of two parts, and the same in the US, buy the box then buy the Tivo service. Here it was provided with a lifetime Tivo service, and the Tivo service is the problem.

It is really the whole product that is at fault. You can't really use the hardware without the service, as it is relies on that to get the functionality. Then the hadware is locked down to Tivo, because you can't import third party EPG data

When people purchased Tivo,it was advertised on the box as having certain features, such as being able to record shows from the EPG and setting up things such as season passes. So IMO with Hybrid closing down, it means that the box is no longer fit for purpose, as you won' be able to continue doing that once Hybrid closes down. Even Hybrid did say in their email that they recommend not using the device after it has closed down, which basically says that the hardware will then be useless.

tdgeek

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#1753358 2-Apr-2017 19:34

minimoke:

tdgeek:

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box.

From the Commerce Commission: "Any claims made to bolster the image of a business or its products or services must be accurate"

Bold 1 "rolls Royce" may be a bit of hyperbole on my part. Would you settle for "world class entertainment device"

Yes I would. Not that I personally agree, but as a grid type of EPG it was cool then. World Class is also hyperbole. Entertainment device is correct. What do you watch? The device or the screen? Clearly the world class relates to the screen, the EPG, the service

Or maybe when I say "world class" I ought to say "TiVo represents a revolution in the way Kiwis watch television" or howabaout "an outstanding result for the consumer.". Some of its here: http://tvnz.co.nz/content/2997521 and with all the features described I think I can be forgiven for calling it Rolls Royce when compared with the other Toyota products on the market at the time. And for the record thats not my commentary - thats Telecoms and Hybrids to add weight to their launch. Seems like they were all talk and no trousers eh?

TVNZ were partners, their words, you cannot see the link there? Features are features, RR is quality, two different things.

Now if it stated that the box is made from the best quality plastic, metals and componentry, under strict world class quality control, then yes take that as RR like. You seem to be doing the bolstering IMHO

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Jase2985

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#1753359 2-Apr-2017 19:35

and we are going round in circles again

tdgeek

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#1753360 2-Apr-2017 19:37

mattwnz:

tdgeek:

gregmcc:

tdgeek:

Its advertising for your dollar, nothing more than that. It's a PVR box. The brand is popular in the US, due to the cool TIVO service

The box is still working. So thats no issue. If it fails, you could talk to Spark, but its well out of warranty. So your lifetime subscription is still in place, and when it isn't, talk to Hybrid, failing that, talk to TIVO.

You left one really important bit off the end!, the 1st two are the imported and manufacturer as you stated, but the CGA also allows to hold responsible the Retailer, that would be spark

Except the box is not at fault, the Tivo service is what is ending, and Telecoms T+Cs specifically stated that Telecom T+C covers the hardware and Hybrid T+C's cover the service.

So its made up of two parts, and the same in the US, buy the box then buy the Tivo service. Here it was provided with a lifetime Tivo service, and the Tivo service is the problem.

It is really the whole product that is at fault. You can't really use the hardware without the service, as it is relies on that to get the functionality. Then the hadware is locked down to Tivo, because you can't import third party EPG data

When people purchased Tivo,it was advertised on the box as having certain features, such as being able to record shows from the EPG and setting up things such as season passes. So IMO with Hybrid closing down, it means that the box is no longer fit for purpose, as you won' be able to continue doing that once Hybrid closes down. Even Hybrid did say in their email that they recommend not using the device after it has closed down, which basically says that the hardware will then be useless.

The T+C's for the box and the service are seperate. Thats always been the case, possibly as Hybrid are not Tivo, Hybrid bought the rights for 10 years with hopes of it being very long term, maybe thats why they are seperate. The 130,000 sales that they expected did not turn out to be the case.

RC

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#1910622 29-Nov-2017 16:35

I was going to post this about a month ago, but had to get the thread unlocked (done very quickly!) and then got way-layed with other matters.

This is a generic view and not intended to constitute legal advice (i.e. you need to take your own view or obtain specific advice based on your own circumstances).

Re potential claims under the CGA 1996 - a lawyer's perspective and also based on personal experience in the Disputes Tribunal.

1) The CGA distinguishes between supplies by retailers and manufacturers. Generally remedies against retailers are much more fulsome (repair, refund etc) than those against Manufacturers (repair or damages based on diminution of value - current price less value of defective goods in current condition)

2) Telecom NZ / Spark was the main supplier in NZ. I believe some retailers also sold the units. As Spark was the importer, Spark. The CGA deems that an importer (Spark) is to be treated as a manufacturer. If the importer also sells the goods (as Telecom / Spark did) then the consumer can pursue remedies against Spark as if it was a retailer / supplier.

3) Spark - as retailer - and in some cases manufacturer - may treat claims the same regardless of whether Spark was retailer or not.

4) The CGA provides a statutory guarantee that goods are freee from defects and will perform as reasonably expected for goods of that nature. The only relevant exception would be if the goods - Tivo - were supplied with an express disclaimer that the service or part of the service (e.g. TV guide) was liable to be withdrawn.

5) I do not believe there was any express disclaimer that Tivo TV guide would be cancelled.

6) The issue is whether the goods - Tivo - has performed for a reasonable time - a reasonable time that goods of that nature would be expected to performed. The manufacturer and retailer

7) I believe it is arguable that the goods have not performed as would reasonably be expected in that the TV Guide has been withdrawn making the Tivo units far less effective than as originally intended. The TV guide service is an integral part to the use and operation of the unit. A dumb TV recorder is nothing like the Tivo people purchased.

8) I also believe that it is arguable that the goods - Tivo - have not performed for a reasonable period of time. As the time that goods should perform free of defects is not defined in the CGA, this is an area that could be open to debate. Given TV sets are expected to last 10 -12 years (Consumer NZ appliance reliability surveys) I believe there is a strong case that Spark has breached the CGA in failing to maintain the TV Guide.

Spark may argue that Tivo withdrew its licence to use the brand. In my view, that is irrelevant. Spark / Hybrid TV could have renewed their licence or not renewed it. The point is that they did not exclude liability for premature end of service.

The Prom upgrade is an option (one that I have followed due to my final Tivo being purchased from a third party whom I do not want to sue) but it can be an expensive option. As long as the prom upgrade costs are reasonable, you may also be able to claim these costs as a remedy from Spark.

My advice:

1) approach Spark and ask for a full refund.

2) failing a remedy, bring a claim in the Disputes Tribunal - the cost is about $30-$40.

3) Spark is also a member of the Telecommunications Disputes Resolution Service. The TDRS will consider claims and if you lose you can still bring a DT claim.

minimoke

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#1910689 29-Nov-2017 18:29

Welcome RC

Hopefully you don't get the same abuse as I did with my obviously outlandish idea that there was a CGA claim here.

Anyway as the initiator of the thread, and since its open heres a bit of an update.

I found a paper trail that showed my TiVo came with a Life Time Service which is the life of the TiVo box - not the local Tivo server.

Much to my surprise I did not buy my Tivo off Telecom / Spark. The Company was XYZ Limited - cant remember the name and I have re-filed the receipt. Essentially this was the company that used the Telecom store as its frontage - every thing looked "telecom" except for my receipt.

I took heart form a post in the Bluebridge(?) bluetooth thread which had a thing from Consumers NZ which essentially said if a product came with a known fault and it wasn't advertised to the consumer a CGA claim could apply (Check out that Bluetooth security vulnerability thread for the exact words).

Given I did not buy my TiVo from Telecom I reckon it is pointless referencing the Telecom T's and C's so please don't.

Also given I didn't by my Tivo from Telcom I cant pursue a claim against them as the retailer. Consequently I felt I had pretty much come to the end of the line.

That said I have decided to get my TiVo chipped as well as putting in a 1tb hard drive - this I feel is likely to invalidate any CGA claim I may have. Unless I could agree with some party (who now no longer exists) that this is a mutually acceptable remedy under the CGA. (note - cost of chipping is less than registering CGA Dispute claim)

My Tivo is now chipped and I am once again a very happy Tivo owner - so cant complain and on that basis wouldn't / couldn't bring a CGA clima.

CASE CLOSED

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