TiVo Service ending on 31 October 2017

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9119 posts

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Subscriber

#1810669 3-Jul-2017 08:34

JimmyH:

A PC is still more flexible than a Panny. I love my Pannys, they are nice kit. But from time to time I contemplate building a HTPC, and may do so when I dump Sky.

As I see it, while it's more complicated and "fiddly" than a dedicated unit like the Panny, the potential advantages include (esp if a Windows build with the right hardware choices):

Ability to integrate Netflix, Lightbox etc on the same device.
Ability to record from A set top box (Sky, Vodafone, Apple TV etc) without restrictions (ignoring pesky DRM etc) all the way up to 1080p
Ability to add as many tuners, terrestrial and satellite as you want. There are cared with 4 or 8 discrete tuners around.
Tighter control over audio/video codec choices
Ability to stream recordings around a network without complications.
Integration of MCE buddy, which looks like it can automatically remove ads from recordings.
Effectively uncapped storage - add as much as you like, on the unit or attached to the network.
Storage can also be fault-tolerant, using RAID 5 or 6.
No region restrictions on optical disk playback.
Remote access/control using network connection.
Plex/Kodi integration - metadata scraping etc for recordings.

Yes but how much did this cost??

Regards,

Old3eyes

Wiggum

1199 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1810689 3-Jul-2017 09:10

old3eyes:

JimmyH:

A PC is still more flexible than a Panny. I love my Pannys, they are nice kit. But from time to time I contemplate building a HTPC, and may do so when I dump Sky.

As I see it, while it's more complicated and "fiddly" than a dedicated unit like the Panny, the potential advantages include (esp if a Windows build with the right hardware choices):

Ability to integrate Netflix, Lightbox etc on the same device.
Ability to record from A set top box (Sky, Vodafone, Apple TV etc) without restrictions (ignoring pesky DRM etc) all the way up to 1080p
Ability to add as many tuners, terrestrial and satellite as you want. There are cared with 4 or 8 discrete tuners around.
Tighter control over audio/video codec choices
Ability to stream recordings around a network without complications.
Integration of MCE buddy, which looks like it can automatically remove ads from recordings.
Effectively uncapped storage - add as much as you like, on the unit or attached to the network.
Storage can also be fault-tolerant, using RAID 5 or 6.
No region restrictions on optical disk playback.
Remote access/control using network connection.
Plex/Kodi integration - metadata scraping etc for recordings.

Yes but how much did this cost??

You can do most of that with a Raspberry Pi + a few hardware adons.

No need really for an expensive PC.

red89mx

81 posts

Master Geek

#1810983 3-Jul-2017 14:52

Bit the bullet and picked up 2 x Panny DMR-HWT260's over the weekend (From JB at $320 each ) to ensure we have continuity if the Tivo's cannot be maintained post September.

We need a PVR as my wife is Deaf and all the NZ streaming options (TV1,2,3, on demand) as well as Freeview plus (seems to be a repackaged on-demand) do not broadcast captions. The only current way in NZ is to record the live show with the caption information.

I have also taken up Sparks Netflix deal as this streaming service has awesome captions....but not the UK/AUS TV content favored by SWMBO.

My first impressions coincide with other reviewers, but I am still working through the systems.

* Panny has more lag.

* The + 60s button functionality not enabled when playing back. (beggar - was excited to see the button)

* Panny seems more sensitive to signal strength

* Not as intuitive

I do like the Netflix integration, have not tried the Panny app for remote recording....not holding breath after many reviewers have panned their apps. Am somewhat concerned re opening up security holes in network, so may disable this.

We now have a few months for Wife to practice recording in parallel with the Tivo, and I am resigned to being blamed for the Panny not being "the same".

If there is an option to keep the old Tivo going post Sept, I will support this....but in reality the kit will die at some stage and unless the solution can resolve this then it is only a delaying move.

JimmyH

2886 posts

Uber Geek

#1812230 3-Jul-2017 20:22

old3eyes:

Yes but how much did this cost??

As to how much it “did” cost, I can’t say, as while I bought a few bits I never quite got around to buying the whole package or putting it together.

But my last “back of en envelope” costing last year came out at around $900-950, based on:

Dual DVB-S2: tuner $230 ($US 169)
Quad DVB-T2: tuner $140 ($US 99)
Hauppauge HD PVR 2: nil (I already have this)
HDCP stripper: nil (I already have this)
Core i7 SFF PC: $550 (refurb from PB Tech, sale price)

It would probably be around the same now – as I would drop the DVB-S2 tuner, and add a larger hard drive and a media remote.

If you wanted a basic unit (say a refurbed ex-lease core i5, with a quad terrestrial tuner, and no satellite or HDMI recording capability) then you could probably get away with $600-650. Or even cheaper if you went single tuner.

I am still considering doing something like this in early 2018. At the moment, money is a bit tight and I have blown most of my toy budget on a NAS storage upgrade, which was a higher priority.

Something in the $700 range doesn't seem outrageous for the functionality. Particularly if (unlike authorised Freeview boxes) a 60 second skip button can be enabled and/or automatic commercial detection and removal is possible.

cafeg

697 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1812249 3-Jul-2017 21:01

+ $212 for the haupauge card or similar card and $75 for the stripper if anyone else is thinking about it.

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/TVNHGR1487/Hauppauge-HD-PVR-2-Gaming-Edition-record-and-strea

fe31nz

1229 posts

Uber Geek

#1812271 3-Jul-2017 21:49

cafeg:

+ $212 for the haupauge card or similar card and $75 for the stripper if anyone else is thinking about it.

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/TVNHGR1487/Hauppauge-HD-PVR-2-Gaming-Edition-record-and-strea

If you are doing that for Sky, then you would be better off using a card reader for your Sky card and getting DVB-S2 tuners so you can record the direct Sky channels.

lucasnz

45 posts

Geek

#1812325 4-Jul-2017 07:54

old3eyes:

Yes but how much did this cost??

Did you see my earlier post describing a setup for around $300?

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=114&topicid=208847&page_no=38#1753376

Also, there's a lot of mention of MythTV, but I'd recommend LibreELEC with TVHeadend. Far easier to set up, and I am yet to hear a feature that MythTV has over LibreELEC with TVHeadend.

In later posts @michaelmurfy suggests using a Odroid C2 instead of a Pi (which is an excellent idea)!

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G145457216438

And @Groucho mentions that you don't need an infrared receiver (for the Pi) if you are using the set up with TV that support HDMI-CEC (almost all modern TVs) - you can control the set up with the TV remote...

Regards,

Luke

Equinox IT

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ttrotter

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

ID Verified

#1812343 4-Jul-2017 08:36

Plus 1 for Luke's suggestion of LibreELEC (Kodi) with TVHeadend. My set up (ASRock Beebox, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD & Hauppauge Dual DVB-T USB Tuner - all from PB Tech) cost $664. Works great!

robfish

683 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1812423 4-Jul-2017 11:17

lucasnz:........and I am yet to hear a feature that MythTV has over LibreELEC with TVHeadend.

Try this - backend in the garage; frontends (Mi Boxes x 2, Nexus player, LibreELEC x 2, Fire TVs x 2) in lounge, Living room, bedrooms, study, garage and even outside by the spa pool. (Each frontend cost less than $100.)

We have my son's family living with us at present so this setup works well for us.

Rob

fe31nz

1229 posts

Uber Geek

#1812492 4-Jul-2017 12:09

lucasnz:

Also, there's a lot of mention of MythTV, but I'd recommend LibreELEC with TVHeadend. Far easier to set up, and I am yet to hear a feature that MythTV has over LibreELEC with TVHeadend.

Quote from the TVHeadend wiki "Tvheadend has a DVR/PVR function. At the moment the recording management is extreemly basis" [sic]. MythTV has very sophisticated recording capabilities. For example, storage management. One thing I would not want to live without is how MythTV remembers everything it has ever recorded and does not ever re-record the same episode unless told to (or the EPG is so bad it can not tell). It is designed from the ground up for the recording function, with live TV really just an add-on extra. TVHeadend is all about the live TV streaming function, with recording as just an afterthought.

red89mx

81 posts

Master Geek

#1812498 4-Jul-2017 12:17

Whilst this is good info on creating computer based systems (and it is geekzone after all) I do wonder if it should be added to the HTPC thread and referenced from the Tivo thread.

Many of the posters/readers are looking for off-the shelf solutions that require minimal support for older relatives.....and more importantly meet appropriate spousal approval criteria (or WAF).

Whilst I am interested in building a HTPC, I know from experience that if it is not as fast, intuitive and easy to operate as the Tivo ....I will be toast.

What are the options for out of box solutions to replace Tivo, here is what i looked at.

1. Pannasonic PVR's/BDP's....1 TB PVR can be purchased for $320 with a bit of haggling.

2. Samsung PVR's/BDP (BD-F850)....seems pricey at approx $500, and not many stores seem to stock.

3. Dish TV offerings - feedback indicates these have a number of operating/software issues. Dish also looked after MagicTV, which I think are now discontinued.

4. DTVS offerings (http://www.dtvs.co.nz/) HomecastHT9200 - price slightly < than Panasonic but old and only 500Mb. Not great feedback on some forums. no freeview plus? no netflix.

The simplest, cheapest and most available TIVO blackbox replacement option appears to be a Panasonic at this stage.

Are there other simple options that can be purchased off the shelf?

clive100

236 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#1812523 4-Jul-2017 13:08

red89mx:

2. Samsung PVR's/BDP (BD-F850)....seems pricey at approx $500, and not many stores seem to stock.

Is this currently available ?

red89mx

81 posts

Master Geek

#1812538 4-Jul-2017 13:31

I have seen the Samsung PVR in last 6 weeks - cannot remember where..... think it was Smith City (Porirua), Noel Leeming (Porirua) . But price and spec (500gb) meant it was only a cursory look. Was interested as had not seen much other than the Panasonics and DishTV's elsewhere.

Checking on-line it was probably an old stock unit.

lucasnz

45 posts

Geek

#1813023 5-Jul-2017 07:37

fe31nz:

Quote from the TVHeadend wiki "Tvheadend has a DVR/PVR function. At the moment the recording management is extreemly basis" [sic]. MythTV has very sophisticated recording capabilities. For example, storage management. One thing I would not want to live without is how MythTV remembers everything it has ever recorded and does not ever re-record the same episode unless told to (or the EPG is so bad it can not tell). It is designed from the ground up for the recording function, with live TV really just an add-on extra. TVHeadend is all about the live TV streaming function, with recording as just an afterthought.

I suspect that part of the wiki hasn't been updated in some time - significant work has been done in that space. Recording management in TVHeadend is more than adequate, and very easy to use. And I am still yet to hear a feature that MythTV has over LibreELEC with TVHeadend (my experience of TVHeadend is it does the two things you mention). But we've now hijacked thread to make it MythTV vs TVHeadend (which wasn't my intention), it was really just to call out there's a simpler option. I also need to acknowledge, there must be features that MythTV has that TVHeadend doesn't as it's simpler, and this almost guarantees less features (in TVHeadend) - it's just I haven't encountered a shortcoming that matters to me yet.

Luke

DMCM

78 posts

Master Geek

#1824146 18-Jul-2017 08:18

OK I am looking like being able to pick up my 3 year old desktop work PC (Windows 10, i7, 1TB, 8GB RAM) for a throw away price, so I guess potentially all I may need to add to it is a dual or quad tuner card and possibly a quieter fan? Thoughts please!

I was looking at Kodi, but to be honest I'm still at the beginning of understanding the ins and outs of the open source media offerings...

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