Real estate, post COVID-19 level 4 (since 2020)

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Real estate, post COVID-19 level 4 (since 2020)

1 | ... | 151 | 152 | 153 | 154 | 155 | 156 | 157 | 158 | 159 | 160 | 161 | ... | 174

11930 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9689

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3154759 1-Nov-2023 22:34

johno1234: People who buy a house to live in buy it to live in. It is not to make money.

No no no. They buy it for greedy profits. Why would they buy a house they want to live in when profits 🤦

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4798

#3154768 2-Nov-2023 01:59

Handle9:
mattwnz: It is usually your biggest asset, but that doesn't mean it should be treated as investment. Isnt that one reason it isn't subject to capital gains tax in countries like Australia. If it was an investment, then shouldn't the owner be paying tax if sold for a profit, as the intention to buy was to make a profit.

There is no capital gains tax on the family home in Australia.

Even though there is a capital gains tax on investment properties it’s not doing much to control prices there for the same reason it wouldn’t in Nz - there is a shortage of housing.

Yes that is why I said the home you live(your biggest asset) in isn't subject to capital gains taxed in countries like Australia. However I understand CGT does apply to the family home in Oz if you sell it within 1 year. In NZ if there is a history or intention of buying and selling and doing up the house one lives in for a profit eg flipping the house, the owner can get taxed on the profits.

House prices in Australia are going up currently due to a lack of supply. But that lack of supply is largely due to the record immigration numbers, so it is creating artificially high demand, and when that occurs prices usually rise. Plus their interest rates aren't as high as they are in NZ, and I don't think they had a drop in house prices like NZ, and their prices didn't increase as much as NZs over 2020-21 . NZs house price increases were some of the highest in the world, and that was largely driven by the record low interest rates and a supply shortage due to the housing crisis pre covid . It eased off after the borders were closed and supply caught up somewhat. But 100k + incoming people is likely to cause future supply problems.

Handle9

11930 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9689

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3154769 2-Nov-2023 02:16

mattwnz:

House prices in Australia are going up currently due to a lack of supply.

So the same reason that house prices have gone up in New Zealand. Tax doesn't fix that. It can reduce the marginal incentive to invest in an asset class but it doesn't fix supply.

I think there should be a capital gains tax as it broadens the tax base and puts different ways of making money on a level playing field but capital gains taxes, wealth taxes and land taxes don't incentivise supply and reduce building costs.

The only way governments can reduce the cost of building is reduce their contribution to the costs of building and make it easier to build. The way governments can incentivise supply is by making it faster and easier to build and reduce compliance and development costs. That puts the burden onto existing tax payers but that's how it goes.

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4798

#3154875 2-Nov-2023 14:54

Yes I agree that NZ does need a CGT and by itself it may not reduce house prices. But it could be used to allow a tax switch to bring down the price of building new. Eg doing what they do in the UK making building materials zero rated for GST/VAT. But like the supermarket duopoly in NZ, the building materials market also lacks competition.

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4798

#3155023 2-Nov-2023 16:43

Handle9:

Most of the developed world has a housing affordability problem but New Zealand’s is one of the worst.

And it is a whole combination of factors, not just one, and the conditions are constantly changing. A few years ago it was ultra low interest rates and lack of supply + FOMO that was driving up prices. Prior to the foreign buys ban under Labour, it was overseas buyers contributing to rising prices according to Labour. Now prices have gone backwards due to the foreign buyers ban and interest rates going back up to more normal levels. But foreign buyers will again soon be able to buy houses over 2 million, which will include a lot of Auckland and Queenstown homes, which are the most popular anyway. Plus 1.7 million dollar houses, (which is the median house price in Queenstown), will likely become 2 million dollar house, so they can then be sold to offshore buyers. Plus the weak NZ dollar makes NZ houses even more attractive at the moment.

tweake

2650 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1139

#3155166 2-Nov-2023 20:32

time to stir the pot again.

what interesting in this thread is that no one has refuted the impact the housing crisis has on people. its like people accept thats its bad for people.

however there is a long line of excuses to avoid doing anything about it. everything from "we had it worse in the 80's (deny that today is worse therefore housing crisis does not exist", to "its not profit" "you can't make money" "i accidently made money" "but we didn't try to make money".

so basically housing crisis is bad but screw them, give me more money. sadly that echoes what i see/hear in the real world.

as with every boom no one wants to fix it while they are still making the $$$.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

Handle9

11930 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9689

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3155168 2-Nov-2023 20:43

No one with a brain denys the cost of housing is a significant problem.

It's the conspiracy theory that it was deliberately caused for "profits" that is stupid. Equally stupid is the premise that it can be easily solved.

tweake

2650 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1139

#3155173 2-Nov-2023 21:00

Handle9:

No one with a brain denys the cost of housing is a significant problem.

It's the conspiracy theory that it was deliberately caused for "profits" that is stupid. Equally stupid is the premise that it can be easily solved.

so you accidently made profits then. all those people selling houses months after buying them for 100k more they accidently made money. no one would ever dare to go out and try to make money from housing, everyone is just to nice for that.

you sound just like RE industry trying to tell people the housing crisis is over.

Handle9

11930 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9689

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3155177 2-Nov-2023 21:19

Please quote me where I said there wasn’t a problem with housing prices.

Take your time. I’ll wait.

mudguard

2328 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1251

#3155209 3-Nov-2023 07:07

tweake:

time to stir the pot again.

what interesting in this thread is that no one has refuted the impact the housing crisis has on people. its like people accept thats its bad for people.

No one is denying it is an issue. This whole thread was setup basically because of it.

What can be done about it is another question. And not easily solved. I think there options, but none are easy or palatable.

Push interest rates higher. This would involve a change to the Reserve Bank's mandate, as it is really only there to keep a lid on inflation and employment, not house prices.

Make it difficult to use existing equity to purchase subsequent properties. So if we need 20% deposit (cash) for the first home, then make it 40% for the second, but the security is independent and tied to one property.

EG, I buy a house for $500,000 ten years ago, it's now worth $1M and I owe $300,000. I can no longer use that equity as a deposit for a second purchase. How practical this is I don't know.

Increase supply. Again, hard, it's the land in most places that is the expensive part. I think we are building 50,000 new homes per year at the moment. How many more trade staff do you need to increase that?

And again, none of this will happen while the large voting blocs have a vested interest in the result. If we had a large voter base of 20-30 year old likely life time renters, suddenly come out and vote for the Tax on Capital and Capital Gains party, then something might change.

I think the most likely chance is that prices stay flat and we have to wait at least a generation or two for wages to catch up. Which shafts them.

johno1234

3371 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2848

#3155217 3-Nov-2023 08:03

Handle9:

No one with a brain denys the cost of housing is a significant problem.

It's the conspiracy theory that it was deliberately caused for "profits" that is stupid. Equally stupid is the premise that it can be easily solved.

And further, we can see from Australia that you can't tax a supply and demand problem into submission. The demand won't go away unless you get rid of people and it does nothing to address supply.

Mighty Ape

Shop now at Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

ZollyMonsta

3009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 379

ID Verified

Trusted

#3155277 3-Nov-2023 09:42

I haven't been in the housing market since 2018 and it was bad then. Now out of my marriage and having to start again, the prices are even more prohibitive.
A housebus at the beach is becoming more and more attractive...

Check out my LPFM Radio Station at www.thecheese.co.nz - Now on iHeart Radio, TuneIn and Radio Garden

As per the usual std disclaimer.. "All thoughts typed here are my own."

tweake

2650 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1139

#3155485 3-Nov-2023 15:34

Handle9: Please quote me where I said there wasn’t a problem with housing prices.

Take your time. I’ll wait.

Handle9:

They could never afford it and access to credit was extremely difficult until the market reforms of the 80s and 90s.

Funnily enough building new houses is quite difficult when interest rates are at 20%. Put rampant inflation into the mix and its mess.

the old "it was worse in the 80's" therefore todays housing crisis doesn't exist. pretend the situation isn't happening just like pretending no one makes money off it. 🙄

tweake

2650 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1139

#3155488 3-Nov-2023 15:35

johno1234:

And further, we can see from Australia that you can't tax a supply and demand problem into submission. The demand won't go away unless you get rid of people and it does nothing to address supply.

unless the demand is artificial. airbnb for eg.

tweake

2650 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1139

#3155491 3-Nov-2023 15:41

mudguard:

tweake:

time to stir the pot again.

what interesting in this thread is that no one has refuted the impact the housing crisis has on people. its like people accept thats its bad for people.

No one is denying it is an issue. This whole thread was setup basically because of it.

What can be done about it is another question. And not easily solved. I think there options, but none are easy or palatable.

And again, none of this will happen while the large voting blocs have a vested interest in the result.

exactly.

no one wants to fix it even tho they say its bad, they still want the $$$ and do not care about the cost. its head in the sand, pretend it doesn't exist or they have any involvement in it at all. but they still want to make the $$.

1 | ... | 151 | 152 | 153 | 154 | 155 | 156 | 157 | 158 | 159 | 160 | 161 | ... | 174