Time to give electricity the flick?

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48 posts

Geek

#1803868 20-Jun-2017 10:11

I agree about the lack of communication. Had this email been sent 4 weeks ago, I bet they would have kept many more customers.

For the values of watching spot prices and the pesky app notifications: home automation :) I realise you had started the hot water tank timer talk but I still think there is some merit in pursuing that avenue given the influx of new cheap iot technologies

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kingjj

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#1803870 20-Jun-2017 10:19

39.5c at 1015 today in Chch. Got the email yesterday as well. Really didn't say anything unexpected - this is the situation, we expect it to carry on for a while, don't jump ship though as you'll save again with us soon (how soon who knows). Like @timmmay we're getting sick of the alerts and constantly watching the spot prices all day every day. I'd rather have a base price and stick with that for now. It was fun for a while.

jonathan18

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#1803882 20-Jun-2017 10:39

I've just come across this article on Stuff:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93856274/Power-price-surge-too-hot-for-some-customers

It'll be interesting to see whether data will show a movement in churn away from Flick - they experienced the greatest increase in numbers of customers switching in 2016 (9908 versus 6192 for Electric Kiwi) but I'd imagine the situation of the past few weeks (and potentially into the future) will have at least some impact on its growth in 2017. (It'll be useful to see churn data on a more detailed level than simply annualised figures as well.)

Second edit: "Flick's own figures show that 28.7 per cent of its customers shifted to other retailers in May, up from 21.4 per cent in April." It'll be interesting to see figures for June, if they release those. But a loss of nearly 30% of your customer base within a month seems on the really high side.

Edit - meant to include the link to the data on churn: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/92581251/there-has-been-a-surge-in-the-number-of-people-switching-power-providers

timmmay

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#1803887 20-Jun-2017 10:50

From that article

"Flick's own figures show that 28.7 per cent of its customers shifted to other retailers in May, up from 21.4 per cent in April.

O'Connor said customers were not locked in to term contracts. The level of shifting that had been recorded so far was not unreasonable, he said. Many companies ran pre-winter campaigns in May, ahead of winter."

Almost 30% of customers shifting must be a concern. No wonder they're being slow to authorise transfers.

I don't think it's particularly fair to switch to fixed price in winter then Flick in summer. Fixed price providers probably lose money during periods like this, they should be able to recoup. However, it's a free and open market so they probably all have to take that into account.

My power usage has increased by 50% since last winter, combined with the increased costs the bills are around 50 - 75% higher this year.

jamesrobert

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#1803916 20-Jun-2017 11:17

When I switched to Electric Kiwi last year, I considered Flick, but decided that I would not be able to handle the stress!
Good decision.

Wiggum

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#1803927 20-Jun-2017 11:30

jamesrobert: When I switched to Electric Kiwi last year, I considered Flick, but decided that I would not be able to handle the stress!
Good decision.

I agree with you. Flick has been great, but it assumes you are always home and are able to turn things off to save.

I just got a notification a few minutes ago, Wellington price back up at 32.1cents per unit. I'm at work, so not much I can do to turn anything off. I guess to really take advantage of it I would need to have the ability to switch items off remotely/ or automatically (during spikes). The app should really be coupled with a a couple of remote power switches connected to hotwater cylinder, heat pump, dryer, washing machines and dishwashers etc. Now that would be awesome.

timmmay

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#1803929 20-Jun-2017 11:35

Wiggum:

I agree with you. Flick has been great, but it assumes you are always home and are able to turn things off to save.

I just got a notification a few minutes ago, Wellington price back up at 32.1cents per unit. I'm at work, so not much I can do to turn anything off. I guess to really take advantage of it I would need to have the ability to switch items off remotely/ or automatically (during spikes). The app should really be coupled with a a couple of remote power switches connected to hotwater cylinder, heat pump, dryer, washing machines and dishwashers etc. Now that would be awesome.

Remote or automated control is possible, but probably expensive for that level of control.

Most of the time the prices are fairly predictable. Peak is 7-9am and 5-8pm, afternoon lull is 2-3pm, prices are lowest from 2am to 6am. That's not true right now, but is generally true.

It's probably best to optimise for the common case, rather than the rare cases like now. It's not difficult to put hot water on a timer, run the clothes drier and dishwasher overnight. Heat pump is especially easy to automate with something like this. There's a newer thread and Broadlink have a smaller cheaper option, but I can't find the thread right now.

zerkms

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#1803932 20-Jun-2017 11:35

Wiggum:

The app should really be coupled with a a couple of remote power switches connected to hotwater cylinder, heat pump, dryer, washing machines and dishwashers etc. Now that would be awesome.

Given that the whole IoT thing these days is a security disaster - it would be a risk to allow it.

mattrix

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#1803939 20-Jun-2017 11:48

@zerkms

Yes and no.
If you know how to do it correctly - then a lot of the security concerns can be fixed.
But, yes - a lot of "off the shelf" IoT stuff is pretty scary.

Remember for anyone switching to EK, go low user if your using less than 667 kw/h per month :)

gchiu

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#1803946 20-Jun-2017 12:08

If the IoT is a disaster it's because devices come with default passwords that people don't change.

zerkms

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#1803947 20-Jun-2017 12:11

gchiu:

If the IoT is a disaster it's because devices come with default passwords that people don't change.

... or devices that use vulnerable software, or devices that simply aren't developed securely :-)

easycloud

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#1803950 20-Jun-2017 12:16

A 10 amp wifi-enabled power relay is $7.

You can make one for less than $3 if you can solder.

Like i said, it's the era of automaton and providers like Flick complement that really nicely.

Power prices will never decrease in the long run, hence it's well worth considering automating high-powered home appliances sooner than later.

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timmmay

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#1803952 20-Jun-2017 12:18

easycloud: A 10 amp wifi-enabled power relay is $7.

You can make one for less than $3 if you can solder.

Like i said, it's the era of automaton and providers like Flick complement that really nicely.

Power prices will never decrease in the long run, hence it's well worth considering automating high-powered home appliances sooner than later.

A digital timer that meets all required standards, installed on my switchboard, cost me $250 including installation. This can do 18amp or so, which is suitable for hot water, heat pump, etc.

I'd be very suspicious of a $7 wifi relay, presumably purchased from ebay / aliexpress. If it causes a fault and burns the house down does insurance cover it?

easycloud

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#1803954 20-Jun-2017 12:21

It's made up of two industry standard components used everywhere: a songle relay and an esp8266 wifi device.

Use what suits you best

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mattrix

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#1803961 20-Jun-2017 12:33

I think easycloud meant to say solid state relay?

This is a perfect relay for the job:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1/32699692440.html

That does up-to 25amp.
Wide range of control voltage as well.

That plus a D1 Mini I would feel pretty safe with.

Here is one my colleague made up:
https://goo.gl/photos/sjeGBUSNdCNnrFJX7

That's not going to a D1, but actually just 5V from a USB port.
So, when we turn off one of our PCs at work at end of the day - it shuts down a bunch of our mains stuff.

I think the main issue is all the off the shelf devices that send and receive (poll) your data to the internet (via their servers).
So you can use there app "from anywhere". Also that they connect directly to your home WiFi.

If I were to setup my own smart home, it would be:

All smart devices on their own separate WiFi network.
This network is secured by a very long (as possible) random character password.
(This password is stored in nodes, so doesn't need to be typed or remembered)

All the "dumb" nodes simply send their data (MQTT) to a master node (eg. a Raspberry Pi).
This Pi runs the MQTT broker, the smart home software, and is hard-wired into the main network (for internet connectivity).
The Pi is running a soft AP which the dumb nodes connect to (they just user their gateway address for broker address).
You could also have the Soft AP running MAC authentication for extra security.
Now all you need to do is make sure the smart home software is pretty locked down (good user / password access).

Remember that your normal WiFi is most likely not that secure.
You probably have given the password out to friends etc, so don't assume it's a layer of security.
It also probably uses quite a weak password (so you can remember it).

If I wanted remote access to my smart home, I would probably just do it via secure VPN access.
So, on phone - connect to home VPN. Then open smart home app (which just uses the Pi3 local IP address).
Also stops you having two different IPS (one when local, one when remote) for the smart home app as well if you did the scary port forward route.

oops - this is all going pretty off-topic...

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