Heat Pump installation?

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Hibino

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Topic # 238210 6-Jul-2018 21:54

Bought a Fujitsu heat pump at NL a month ago and finally got installed today by NL contracted and Fujitsu accredited installer.

When I reading the operational manual and opened the intake grille in order to find the wifi password, I found that the installer didn't fit the two included "air cleaning ﬁlter"(1 Apple-catechin ﬁlter and 1 Ion deodorization ﬁlter) onto the normal air filter and took them away. Is this normal and are these filters not needed?

Since he only left me 3 piece of paper(1 operation manual, 1 warranty card, 1 electrical safety certificate) and the remote control with holder, I am wondering if there is other accessories that come with the heat pump(indoor + outdoor unit) which is not already installed into the machine and can be taken away? Also, is there any easy way I can check if the installation is good(the heat pump works now but I am not sure if it is working as it suppose to)?

Lucky Fujitsu hide the wifi password behind the intake grille otherwise I probably will never find out.

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Reply # 2050981 7-Jul-2018 10:23

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I doubt those filters do much in reality. They were probably in separate sealed bags in the cartons - they forgot and threw them out with the packaging. They should find them or get replacements for you - it's not acceptable, they are a standard feature of the unit and should have been fitted.

As far as the Wifi password goes, the installers who put in our heat pumps last year had not the foggiest clue on earth as to how to set them up, if I couldn't DIY then there was "a geek guy" in the office who I could contact for help.

They did leave me with a very heavy stack of installation manuals as well as the operation manuals, and a few odd bits and pieces of pipe etc in a bag - but took all the rest of the packaging away.

If the heat pump seems to be working as you'd expect, then the rest of the install is probably perfectly fine.

Hibino

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Reply # 2051131 7-Jul-2018 15:56

Thank you. I'll call them and ask for the 2 filters on Monday.

Another thing I noted today is that they connected the heat pump power directly to a cable from one of the wall socket. I have another 17 years old heat pump in the house which has a dedicated power cable and a dedicated fuse on the switch board. I am wondering if there is any regulations regarding the power source of the heat pump? Cheers

Hibino

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Reply # 2051641 8-Jul-2018 19:13

Ok, here are some updates:

I talked to my neighbor today who is a electrician and he had a brief look at the electrical part of the installation, he say the work has been done is unacceptable, here is what I remembered from what he said:

1, there is a square box with on/off switch(sorry, forget what it is called) beside the outside unit, it supposed to be water proof but there is no any seal around the input/output cable hole, which means water and other things can get in.

2, the heat pump is labeled "max current 16A", and is wired into a existing wall socket which connected to a ancient ceramic fuse which is labeled 15A. And the fuse is actually used by several wall socket around the living room.

3, he said I should receive a COC(sound like this, but can't remember:-( ) but all I got is a Compliance and Electrical Safety Certificate.

4, And some other small details that I can't catch clearly...

I paid $1070 for the installation, now feels like being ripped off...

BTW, how can I change the topic subject to "Heat Pump installation"? Since it is not just about "accessary" now...

Fred99

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Reply # 2052131 9-Jul-2018 17:17

I'd go back to NL first - as the installer was a subcontractor to them, your contract was with NL. If they don't sort it out ASAP - then go here:

https://www.ewrb.govt.nz/about-us/complaints/

It sounds dodgy. The IP rated outdoor isolation switches on heat pumps I had installed last year are sealed, the cables are in conduit running back under the house, the conduit is going in to the bottom of the isolation switches. I assume that's normal good practice. It all looks pretty weatherproof to me.

They ran separate new cables for each pump back to the switchboard.

skewt

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Reply # 2052150 9-Jul-2018 17:55

Id complain to NL and say you want another installer to come do the repairs.

My understanding is it should have new cable run back to the switchboard with its own breaker? (well mine and others I have seen are)

If you have the installers name / electrical registration number I would be complaining to the EWRB

richms

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Reply # 2052151 9-Jul-2018 18:00

My understanding is that as they were extending the circuit from the powerpoint to the aircon it should be on an RCD anyway, so dodgey AF for them to do that.

If you have something they dont want to work on like an old fuse panel they cant drill etc they should just not start the job. Bit hard if the fridgies have done their part before the electrical guy said that it shouldnt be done, but thats the risk they take with installing things blind like so many aircon installers will do.

Richard rich.ms

gregmcc

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Reply # 2052153 9-Jul-2018 18:18

skewt:

Id complain to NL and say you want another installer to come do the repairs.

My understanding is it should have new cable run back to the switchboard with its own breaker? (well mine and others I have seen are)

If you have the installers name / electrical registration number I would be complaining to the EWRB

their is no actual requirement to run a cable back to the switchboard if the circuit you are tapping in to is suitably rated and you won't cause other problems doing so.

gregmcc

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Reply # 2052154 9-Jul-2018 18:26

richms:

My understanding is that as they were extending the circuit from the powerpoint to the aircon it should be on an RCD anyway, so dodgey AF for them to do that.

If you have something they dont want to work on like an old fuse panel they cant drill etc they should just not start the job. Bit hard if the fridgies have done their part before the electrical guy said that it shouldnt be done, but thats the risk they take with installing things blind like so many aircon installers will do.

No requirement for heat pumps to be on an RCD, if a power point was there instead of a heat pump then a RCD would be required.

The OP has been asking questions relating to the electrical side of things over on another forum and got some pointers on what to look for, mostly it compliant (not fully), but a pretty poor installation overall.

Goosey

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Reply # 2052191 9-Jul-2018 19:24

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begs the question, how can the installer be Fujitsu Accredited?

If thats the standard of accreditation then the Fujitsu marketing campaign isnt true.

Suggest you let them know your troubles.

Hibino

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Reply # 2052252 9-Jul-2018 20:36

Here are some updates:

I went to their office this morning told the receptionist that I am worrying about the safety of the installation, but the receptionist told me the heat pump is meant to be installed onto the wall socket and is perfectly safe. She also said she will let the installer know my concerns and will call me back when the installer is free. No call till now. Also both the receptionist and the installer don't know anything about the 2 missing filters.

I have a computer, 2 monitors, 2 sets of speakers plus several USB devices, and a vacuum machine(weekend only) on the same fuse(15A). The heat pump is rated 9A 2120W with max current 16A. I don't think there are much left for my existing equipment after the heat pump.

Like gregmcc said, I asked the same question on a electrical forum and got replies from several electricians. The result is installing a heat pump by wiring into an existing wall socket is perfectly legal, and it is not necessary install a dedicated circuit/fuse/breaker, but the installer has to check if it will overload the existing circuit. So it is a legal installation, but poorly done. Also the outside isolator has to be sealed, the installer can't get away with this part.

I've also talked to all my neighbors all of their heat pump installation is done on a dedicated circuit to the switchboard with a new circuit breaker, the only difference is none of them is using Fujitsu(so not Fujitsu accredited installers).

I wish I have asked someone I know or installer recommended by my neighbor to do the job, but the damn Fujitsu heat pumps has to be installed by their accredited installer in order to receive the 6 years warranty.

I'll see if they will call me back tomorrow.

timmmay

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Reply # 2052441 10-Jul-2018 09:40

I have two heat pumps, both on dedicated circuits. I'd talk to NL and have this redone, otherwise I'd try to escalate to whoever registers electricians or such.

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Wiggum

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Reply # 2052450 10-Jul-2018 09:50

Hibino:

Another thing I noted today is that they connected the heat pump power directly to a cable from one of the wall socket. I have another 17 years old heat pump in the house which has a dedicated power cable and a dedicated fuse on the switch board. I am wondering if there is any regulations regarding the power source of the heat pump? Cheers

Its should be easy to find out if there is a wiring error. If the heatpump is rated more than 2300 Watts, 2.3KW, then its not suitable to be installed on a 10 Amp wall socket. 3450 Watts on a 15 Amp wall Socket

As a test. You could switch the heat pump on, set it to max power. Then plug a power hungry device (ie a 2300 Watt heater), into the same plug socket. If it trips, you are overloading the wall socket, and that should not happen.

nickb800

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Reply # 2052500 10-Jul-2018 10:43

Wiggum:

Hibino:

Another thing I noted today is that they connected the heat pump power directly to a cable from one of the wall socket. I have another 17 years old heat pump in the house which has a dedicated power cable and a dedicated fuse on the switch board. I am wondering if there is any regulations regarding the power source of the heat pump? Cheers

Its should be easy to find out if there is a wiring error. If the heatpump is rated more than 2300 Watts, 2.3KW, then its not suitable to be installed on a 10 Amp wall socket. 3450 Watts on a 15 Amp wall Socket

As a test. You could switch the heat pump on, set it to max power. Then plug a power hungry device (ie a 2300 Watt heater), into the same plug socket. If it trips, you are overloading the wall socket, and that should not happen.

As above from Greg, there's no requirement in regulation for the heat pump to have a dedicated circuit. Could possibly be argued best practice, but you certainly can't demand it as of right, especially with a fixed price install.

There's also no requirement that the circuit support the max demand of it's sockets and the heat pump together. Every house will have several double outlets on a 16A fuse/MCB and there's no chance of supplying every outlet at full capacity simultaneously. A heater and heat pump tripping the fuse isn't evidence to call the installer back on. The fuse is protecting from overload, so no safety issue. There's more of a grey area argument if you can't use the heatpump and a few appliances at the same time, especially if those appliances were plugged in when the installer visited - TV etc as the OP said. The installer could reasonably argue that you wouldn't need to use a plug in heater at full boar at the same time as the heat pump at full boar.

Aredwood

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Reply # 2052522 10-Jul-2018 11:33

timmmay:
I have two heat pumps, both on dedicated circuits. I'd talk to NL and have this redone, otherwise I'd try to escalate to whoever registers electricians or such.

What is the running current of your heatpumps? You might simply have larger models. Meaning that the running current could put the circuit right at its limit. Or maybe your existing circuits can't be extended while still complying with the voltage drop rules. Meaning putting the heatpump on a dedicated circuit would probably be cheaper than replacing the cable in that circuit with a larger size.

timmmay

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Reply # 2052600 10-Jul-2018 12:57

Aredwood:
timmmay:

I have two heat pumps, both on dedicated circuits. I'd talk to NL and have this redone, otherwise I'd try to escalate to whoever registers electricians or such.

What is the running current of your heatpumps? You might simply have larger models. Meaning that the running current could put the circuit right at its limit. Or maybe your existing circuits can't be extended while still complying with the voltage drop rules. Meaning putting the heatpump on a dedicated circuit would probably be cheaper than replacing the cable in that circuit with a larger size.

Not sure about current, but they're 7.5kw heating 8.5kw cooling, which is larger than average. That's probably pushing a bit under 10A.

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