Replacing old Downlights with LED downlights

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Replacing old Downlights with LED downlights - issues with insulation?

robjg63

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#258622 13-Oct-2019 14:10

So we have a house built around 2000 that has regular downlights (100mm hole with normal light bulbs).

The ceiling on the top story of the house has insulfluff.

I would like to update the lights to 230v LED downlights

As far as I can see its legal to replace a light fitting in your own home - So physically replacing them seems to be legal.

Any new LED downlights would not have insulation over the top of them - (as the current downlights are obviously not covered) so presumably should be ok heatwise.

I've seen a few arguments on the web about whether LED downlights are ok with certain types of insulation etc.

Anyone have any knowledge on this?

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

antoniosk

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#2336276 13-Oct-2019 14:24

LED's need a small driver unit to convert ac to dc... but they dont draw much power anyway, so I doubt the heat is that much. Still something to think about.

Your insulfluff might have become dust though.... have you had it checked?

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robjg63

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#2336277 13-Oct-2019 14:30

antoniosk:

LED's need a small driver unit to convert ac to dc... but they dont draw much power anyway, so I doubt the heat is that much. Still something to think about.

Your insulfluff might have become dust though.... have you had it checked?

The drivers seem to be all built in to the fittings - so its just a connection to the 230v power lead.

Last time I looked the insulfluff was in good condition.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

bfginger

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#2336319 13-Oct-2019 14:46

You can buy downlights rated to have insulation over them. But that rating is for specific types of insulation like fibreglass and rockwool batts. Loose fill paper over insulation is a no no. So move the cellulose elsewhere and you can put some batts over the sections where the downlights are. If you look closely even LED downlights rated to have insulation over them may not be 100% airtight so there is a chimney effect risk without a covering.

robjg63

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#2336327 13-Oct-2019 16:15

bfginger: You can buy downlights rated to have insulation over them. But that rating is for specific types of insulation like fibreglass and rockwool batts. Loose fill paper over insulation is a no no. So move the cellulose elsewhere and you can put some batts over the sections where the downlights are. If you look closely even LED downlights rated to have insulation over them may not be 100% airtight so there is a chimney effect risk without a covering.

That might be an option - move the insulfluff from the area immediately around the light and get glass/wool fibre sheet to cover a properly rated LED fitting.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

timmmay

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#2336345 13-Oct-2019 17:11

Go talk to a lighting store or electrician and find someone clued up. Get insulation cover rated fittings. Mine have an external driver that sits on top of the insulation.

bfginger

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#2336475 13-Oct-2019 22:16

"Loose fill paper over insulation is a no no." should've said loose fill paper over downlights is a no no. I think the concern is some types of insulation are prone to melting or having a lower ignition temperature or are fine enough to migrate into inside the lights. It's almost theoretical but better safe than sorry.

Insulation rated downlights are IC or IC-F rated. F is a tighter standard as explained here

http://www.pierlite.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/IC-vs-IC-F-Differences-Explained.pdf

https://www.thelightingcentre.co.nz/Articles/downlightstandard.htm

The Switch brand is good but you'd pay a premium although trade discounts from wholesalers can be substantial.

Downlights have become popular but 15,000 hours on cheaper units isn't as long as it sounds for a fixtured lumnaire.

I do recommend installing a dimmer at the same time. Underdriving them some of the time will let them last much longer and it negates the risk of overestimating the number of lumens required. Quality trailing edge dimmers should be used with LEDs if at all possible. I got the Kiwi brand as it seemed to be better quality.