2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2597479 4-Nov-2020 10:37

Buster:

Some of these business owners requiring foreign workers need to smarten up.

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it's an eye-opener as to how many NZ businesses are dependent on cheap imported labour. I'm thinking in particularly of Sealord -- given the high unemployment amongst Maori, I think it's reprehensible that a company owned by Ngai Tahu is hiring cheap Russians instead of training NZers.

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#2597491 4-Nov-2020 10:45

frankv:

Buster:

Some of these business owners requiring foreign workers need to smarten up.

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it's an eye-opener as to how many NZ businesses are dependent on cheap imported labour. I'm thinking in particularly of Sealord -- given the high unemployment amongst Maori, I think it's reprehensible that a company owned by Ngai Tahu is hiring cheap Russians instead of training NZers.

They can't get Kiwis to work on these boats in the numbers they need

rugrat

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#2597495 4-Nov-2020 10:48

tdgeek:

Buster:

We've got to do better at minimising the risk. What has happened in Chch has elements that are a long way short of any kind of gold standard.

The risk is mimised, we have had 70,000 through and a handful of issues some of which were escapees smashing windows and fences. Your reply suggest that there is risk and we need to minimise it. Check the numbers, 70,000 through. Thats clearly a well minimised risk if you ask me

I’m more interested that at moment there seems to be a leak every two weeks, then the number through. The risk needs to be minimised more.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-confirmed-case-in-the-community-in-christchurch-so-what-next/DITB635OATW3CS56O7THMRJZQY/

"Professor of public health, Nick Wilson, said there needed to be an urgent review as there appeared to be failures at the border and managed isolation still."

"Basically we're having border control failures every two weeks and we could end up with another Auckland August outbreak if we don't improve."

wellygary

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#2597496 4-Nov-2020 10:50

frankv:

Buster:

Some of these business owners requiring foreign workers need to smarten up.

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it's an eye-opener as to how many NZ businesses are dependent on cheap imported labour. I'm thinking in particularly of Sealord -- given the high unemployment amongst Maori, I think it's reprehensible that a company owned by Ngai Tahu is hiring cheap Russians instead of training NZers.

They do what they can get away with.....

Until 2016 they simply outsourced the whole thing and got foreign vessels ( and crews) to fish large portions of their Deepwater offshore quota....

After the revelations of the working conditions on some/many/probably all, of these vessels the government forced all vessels fishing the NZ EEZ to be NZ flagged and be compliant with minimum NZ employment law...

The government can control how much of this happens by limiting the number of visas issued,

If they want it to end it is certainly within the power of the government to do it...

Fred99

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#2597498 4-Nov-2020 10:54

frankv:

I think it's reprehensible that a company owned by Ngai Tahu is hiring cheap Russians instead of training NZers.

I don't think that's correct. Ngai Tahu may use Sealord to catch quota they own. Sealord is half-owned by a Japanese corporation, and I think the Maori ownership is Ngati Porou.

Most seafood offered by Ngāi Tahu Seafood is caught against Ngāi Tahu quota by Ngāi Tahu fishers – families who have been fishing for generations. There are also important commercial relationships with a number of other New Zealand fishers and processors.

frankv

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#2597539 4-Nov-2020 11:51

tdgeek:

frankv:

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it's an eye-opener as to how many NZ businesses are dependent on cheap imported labour. I'm thinking in particularly of Sealord -- given the high unemployment amongst Maori, I think it's reprehensible that a company owned by Ngai Tahu is hiring cheap Russians instead of training NZers.

They can't get Kiwis to work on these boats in the numbers they need

I wonder what they're paying? Given a charter flight to/from Russia and $4k MIQ and 2 weeks wages, it must be around $10K per person to get them on the boat. Why is it not worth spending that extra $10K to persuade a Kiwi to take the job? I wonder how long their contracts are? I wonder if these fishermen are "employed in Russia" by Russian companies on Russian contracts at Russian wages?

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wellygary

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#2597541 4-Nov-2020 11:57

frankv:

I wonder if these fishermen are "employed in Russia" by Russian companies on Russian contracts at Russian wages?

No they are not allowed to be, they have NZ employment arrangements...

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/FCVs_Public_Q_and_A.pdf

"What are the benefits of reflagging for foreign crew?

"Reflagging will provide greater protection to the crew as they would be employed by a New Zealand-based party under a New Zealand employment agreement. The New Zealand employment relations and health and safety law (and criminal law) would automatically apply. If there were breaches then the Department of Labour (underpayment of wages, illegal deductions) and Maritime New Zealand (health and safety) would be able to investigate and address them, and take enforcement action. Police can investigate criminal acts."

frankv

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#2597542 4-Nov-2020 11:57

Fred99:

I don't think that's correct. Ngai Tahu may use Sealord to catch quota they own. Sealord is half-owned by a Japanese corporation, and I think the Maori ownership is Ngati Porou.

Yes, you're pretty much right... I was wrong about Ngai Tahu.

Established in 1961, in Nelson, Sealord is half owned by the Maori people of New Zealand, through Moana New Zealand (Aotearoa Fisheries Ltd), and half owned by global seafood company Nippon Suisan Kaisha, Ltd (Nissui).

Moana NZ is the largest, Māori-owned fisheries company in Aotearoa/New Zealand. Owned by all iwi, Moana sells freshly caught wetfish, crayfish, paua and farmed shellfish in New Zealand and to lucrative export markets.

Ngati Porou is a major shareholder of Aotearoa Fisheries Ltd and has been working with AFL subsidiaries since 2002 – primarily leasing its inshore quota.

tdgeek

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#2597545 4-Nov-2020 12:01

frankv:

I wonder what they're paying? Given a charter flight to/from Russia and $4k MIQ and 2 weeks wages, it must be around $10K per person to get them on the boat. Why is it not worth spending that extra $10K to persuade a Kiwi to take the job? I wonder how long their contracts are? I wonder if these fishermen are "employed in Russia" by Russian companies on Russian contracts at Russian wages?

I read an article on it recently. Hard work, but plenty of time off between trips, can earn very good money. This is for Kiwis, but not many are around to work on them.It would be FAR less hassle and cost to employ Kiwis and no doubt they have Kiwis, but not enough.

DS248

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#2597546 4-Nov-2020 12:03

Fifth consecutive day of no coronavirus cases or deaths in Victoria.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-04/victoria-no-new-coronavirus-cases-for-fifth-straight-day/12846346

mattwnz

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#2597693 4-Nov-2020 15:16

tdgeek:

Buster:

We've got to do better at minimising the risk. What has happened in Chch has elements that are a long way short of any kind of gold standard.

The risk is mimised, we have had 70,000 through and a handful of issues some of which were escapees smashing windows and fences. Your reply suggest that there is risk and we need to minimise it. Check the numbers, 70,000 through. Thats clearly a well minimised risk if you ask me

Minimising the risk means identifying where the risks are, and making sure what they do isn't increasing the risks. For example, 'Double bedding' contravenes the very principles of quarantining according to Sir David Skeggs, who is NZs top Epidemiologists. So he is qualified to say this. Most of the leaks so far seem to be errors, which they have then had to improved on. eg People using a shared bin, so each of those quarantined people were all touching a dirty common surface during their quaratine period. But that is ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff, and not being proactive at identifying risks before they become a leak. The fact is that Chch is at risk of going up a level if cases spread and this could affect thousands of businesses.

I suggest you watch his interview at, including these things mentioned below. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/coronavirus-another-lockdown-possible-if-complacency-border-failures-continue-sir-david-skegg.html

6 border incursions in 3 months is a sign our systems at the border are failing. 'Our luck is going to run out' . Another lockdown possible if complacency, border 'failures' continue - expert

How many wakeup calls do we need? Sooner or later our luck is going to run out?

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tdgeek

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#2597696 4-Nov-2020 15:24

mattwnz:

Minimising the risk means identifying where the risks are, and making sure what they do isn't increasing the risks. For example, 'Double bedding' contravenes the very principles of quarantining according to Sir David Skeggs, who is NZs top Epidemiologists. So he is qualified to say this. Most of the leaks so far seem to be errors that they have improved on. But that is ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff, and not being proactive at identifying risks before they become a leak. The fact is that Chch is at risk of going up a level if cases spread and this could affect thousands of businesses.

I suggest you watch his interview at, including these things mentioned below. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/coronavirus-another-lockdown-possible-if-complacency-border-failures-continue-sir-david-skegg.html

6 border incursions in 3 months is a sign our systems at the border are failing. 'Our luck is going to run out' . Another lockdown possible if complacency, border 'failures' continue - expert

How many wakeup calls do we need? Sooner or later our luck is going to run out?

If you want next to a 100% guarantee, that will never happen with a non prison MIQ facility.

mattwnz

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#2597698 4-Nov-2020 15:27

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

Minimising the risk means identifying where the risks are, and making sure what they do isn't increasing the risks. For example, 'Double bedding' contravenes the very principles of quarantining according to Sir David Skeggs, who is NZs top Epidemiologists. So he is qualified to say this. Most of the leaks so far seem to be errors that they have improved on. But that is ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff, and not being proactive at identifying risks before they become a leak. The fact is that Chch is at risk of going up a level if cases spread and this could affect thousands of businesses.

I suggest you watch his interview at, including these things mentioned below. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/coronavirus-another-lockdown-possible-if-complacency-border-failures-continue-sir-david-skegg.html

6 border incursions in 3 months is a sign our systems at the border are failing. 'Our luck is going to run out' . Another lockdown possible if complacency, border 'failures' continue - expert

How many wakeup calls do we need? Sooner or later our luck is going to run out?

If you want next to a 100% guarantee, that will never happen with a non prison MIQ facility.

That isn't correct, and that isn't what Sir David Skegg is calling for. Double bedding increases the risk as per his comments. Why would they be double bedding, rather than putting each n their own quarantine space.

Other countries can do it. How many leaks has Australia had from their MIQs since their big leak?

ezbee

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#2597709 4-Nov-2020 15:41

Maybe we can use Kingseat Hospital for isolation, its not doing much at the moment.

Plenty of space for people to exercise in separate groups.

https://hauntedauckland.com/site/kingseat-history-and-hostel/

The isolation center with history and character.

mattwnz

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#2597732 4-Nov-2020 16:27

The director-general of health has warned that people need to lift their game if they want to celebrate Christmas and New Year at alert level 1.

IMO we need it to be mandatory for people to do the contact tracing procedures. Either scan or fill in form.Masks on public transport as recommended too. Fines for people that don't Pretty simple. If everyone is doing it, then it becomes second nature and the new norm. Mask wearing in public maybe the norm overseas for potentially years even with a vaccine dependning on it's effective rate. I would have thought businesses would take the lead and deny people entry unless they scanned in etc, or could this be illegal if it isn't a legal requirement?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123292945/covid19-get-with-it-if-you-want-a-level-1-christmas-dr-ashley-bloomfield-warns

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