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Scott3
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  #2701322 3-May-2021 17:13
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Fred99:

 

Nope.  We'll never get herd immunity globally, so those who are vulnerable because the vaccine won't protect them will continue to be at risk, even if we could eliminate it locally.  Best chance is to get maximum community immunity by high uptake of vaccine, so it won't rage through when inevitably cases do arrive in the country.

 

Even if we reach the theoretical herd immunity level based on R0, it'll be like measles - with pockets of lower immunity.  Some of those will be groups of anti-vaxxers, some will be the elderly or unwell most at risk already.  As for groups of anti-vaxxers, I'd expect them not to front up for testing if they do get C-19, nor take precautions to not transmit it to others.

 

As for emerging escape variants, it's too early to know.  Needing booster shots seems likely, when there's countries with hundreds of millions of active cases and some impossible timeline to vaccinate everybody, it might be inevitable. 

 

 

The meaning's of some words are different to normal in epidemiology.

 

When epidemiologists use the word eliminate in the context of Covid-19, they mean to bring the disease under control and reduce cases to zero in a particular geographical location.  

 

Eradication is the word for getting rid of it globally.

 

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2020/04/24/what-do-we-mean-elimination-covid-19.html

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with the rest of the stuff. When we open up there will be regular introduction's of covid-19 to NZ from overseas.

 

Thankfully covid-19 is both less harmful and less contagious than measles, so we should be able to tolerate the odd pocket of covid-19 in the community.

 

Just need to cross out fingers that there isn't a variant doesn't mutate to evade the vaccines. The number of daily global cases ATM gives the virus lots of opportunities to mutate.




Fred99
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  #2701324 3-May-2021 17:37
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Scott3:

 

Thankfully covid-19 is both less harmful and less contagious than measles, so we should be able to tolerate the odd pocket of covid-19 in the community.

 

 

That really depends...

 

Last measles outbreak in NZ deaths were 1 per thousand cases. Deaths in NZ from Covid are 10 times higher.


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  #2701337 3-May-2021 18:35
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Fred99:

 

Scott3:

 

Thankfully covid-19 is both less harmful and less contagious than measles, so we should be able to tolerate the odd pocket of covid-19 in the community.

 

 

That really depends...

 

Last measles outbreak in NZ deaths were 1 per thousand cases. Deaths in NZ from Covid are 10 times higher.

 

 

depends on the age group

 

NZ = 10/1000

 

that's because it got into the rest homes. we've seen that worldwide - sweden, new york, UK - when it gets into the rest home they all die

 

in Singapore, the death rate is 31/60,000+. **

 

or just under 6 in 10,000 (0.6 per thousand) 

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/topics/coronavirus-covid-19

 

 

 

**  they also have other deaths with covid but not of covid which they didn't include in their count, not sure how many of those there are and whether they were reasonably discounted. every country counts them differently. but singapore counted all their covids hence they should be pretty accurate, unlike some delevoping countries where you could have died of covid and the govt didn't know.

 

 




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  #2701425 3-May-2021 20:14
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Fred99:

 

 

 

Nope.  We'll never get herd immunity globally, so those who are vulnerable because the vaccine won't protect them will continue to be at risk, even if we could eliminate it locally.  Best chance is to get maximum community immunity by high uptake of vaccine, so it won't rage through when inevitably cases do arrive in the country.

 

Even if we reach the theoretical herd immunity level based on R0, it'll be like measles - with pockets of lower immunity.  Some of those will be groups of anti-vaxxers, some will be the elderly or unwell most at risk already.  As for groups of anti-vaxxers, I'd expect them not to front up for testing if they do get C-19, nor take precautions to not transmit it to others.

 

As for emerging escape variants, it's too early to know.  Needing booster shots seems likely, when there's countries with hundreds of millions of active cases and some impossible timeline to vaccinate everybody, it might be inevitable. 

 

 

I cant find the article of about a week or more ago that vaccinated people spread the virus at about 1/3 to 1/2 of non vaccinated people. While I can't find the article, similar points are found online, including Dr Fauci saying they will know more is  a few months. Including one that stated that if you are asymptomatic you wont transmit, but the opposite is stated many times online. Simplistically, viral load reduces. If you are vaccinated, you can still get infected in the nose, thats where the virus enters the body, it infects from there. And thats where transmission occurs from. Its a lower viral load, but while you may not sneeze or cough, you can talk and sing. Also, its often stated that you can get infected but you wont get sick. 

 

So, is this correct or not? Well, according to Fauci we dont know yet. If a vaccinated person can transmit the virus what about kids? Kids dont get vaccinated, the parents do, they can get infected and give it to the kids.

 

I'll keep looking for the article. It stated $ which were close to 1/3 to 1/2, dang annoying


Batman

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  #2701490 4-May-2021 07:13
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Fred99
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  #2701498 4-May-2021 08:12
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Batman: Meanwhile it seems you don't have to be old or be dead to have issues from covid

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300290084/covid19-auckland-woman-gasping-for-air-five-months-after-catching-uk-variant

 

The lung damage that she has (complications from) was used for diagnosis of C-19 with CT scans, before widespread use of the PCR tests.  IOW everyone who's had symptomatic C-19 will have had some lung damage, some probably recover fully, some probably won't. 

 

 


 
 
 
 

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  #2701533 4-May-2021 09:32
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Australia was missing target rates, So have bumped to next phase and opened up to drop-in for all over 50s wanting to get in line for AZ

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-03/over-50s-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-rollout/100111466 


ezbee
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  #2701608 4-May-2021 11:28
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Batman: Meanwhile it seems you don't have to be old or be dead to have issues from covid

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300290084/covid19-auckland-woman-gasping-for-air-five-months-after-catching-uk-variant

 


Its a tradgedy to see someone so young, and wish them all the best for a recovery and a return to a more normal life.
SARS-Cov2 infection risks go far beyond the variable numbers of death rates.
For those not hospitalised there seem to be significant risks, and more reasons to avoid at any age.

 

Are new variants causing more serious outcomes for younger people ?
Was always there all along, but overlooked as 'walking wounded' not such a concern at the start with ICUs overflowing ?

 

We are still finding longer term effects of SARS-Cov2, and how long long term might be who knows ?

 

I’ve Been Sick From COVID-19 For Almost A Year. Here’s What My Life Has Been Like.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/covid-19-long-haul-pasc-one-year_n_6043950dc5b613cec15deb40

""
A recent study published in JAMA Network Open, which Dr. Fauci referenced, indicates that 30% of COVID patients are symptomatic up to nine months after infection. 
""

 

‘Long Hauler’ Study Shows Covid Can Kill Months After Infection
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-22/-long-hauler-study-shows-covid-can-kill-months-after-infection

""
The excess mortality translates into about 8 extra deaths per 1,000 patients -- worsening the pandemic’s hidden toll amid growing recognition that many patients require readmission, and some die, weeks after the viral infection abates.
""

 

There are growing reports of some long haulers who have been vaccinated seeing a significant improvement though not universal.

 

 


wellygary
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  #2701622 4-May-2021 11:58
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Oblivian:

 

Australia was missing target rates, So have bumped to next phase and opened up to drop-in for all over 50s wanting to get in line for AZ

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-03/over-50s-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-rollout/100111466 

 

 

Divide by 5 and Australia's progress is still well ahead of NZ...


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  #2701765 4-May-2021 15:55
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The New York Times - Covid-19 Live Updates: F.D.A. to Authorize Pfizer Vaccine for Adolescents by Early Next Week

 

breaking

 


The Food and Drug Administration is preparing to authorize use of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine in adolescents 12 to 15 years old by early next week ... opening up the U.S. vaccination campaign to millions more people.

 

Some parents have been counting down the weeks since Pfizer announced results from its trial in adolescents showing that the vaccine is at least as effective in that age group as it is in adults. 

 

Vaccinating children is key to raising the level of immunity in the population and bringing down the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths. ...

 





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wellygary
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  #2701771 4-May-2021 16:00
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Sideface:

 

The New York Times - Covid-19 Live Updates: F.D.A. to Authorize Pfizer Vaccine for Adolescents by Early Next Week

 

 

I'm very much expecting Pfizer to be approved for kids 5+ by the end of the year, it may be even sooner, and may go even lower... 

 

The next penny to drop will be the any requirement for boosters/updates that we should start to hear about in 6 months, 


 
 
 

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Scott3
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  #2701796 4-May-2021 16:43
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wellygary:

 

I'm very much expecting Pfizer to be approved for kids 5+ by the end of the year, it may be even sooner, and may go even lower... 

 

The next penny to drop will be the any requirement for boosters/updates that we should start to hear about in 6 months, 

 

 

 

 

Given the goverment has ordered 10m doses for our 4.9m population, it seems the government is expecting approvals for kids to be granted too.

 

 

 

Pfizer trial results for 12-15 year old's seem positive, Seems likely that the FDA will grant emergency approval fairly quickly. I pick NZ's med-safe will watch the situation overseas for 2 - 3 months and then grant full approval if no major issues are gained.

 

Pfizer is / will be running trials in:

 

  • 6mo - 2y
  • 2y - 5y
  • 5y - 11

Starting with 5 - 11. Results of that trial are expected at the end of [northern hemisphere] summer. So assuming the trial goes well, it is quite likely we will see approval by the end of the year.

 

Hopefully pfizer will run the younger kids trials overlapping so the results for pre-preschooler's arn't too much later. I say that as the parent of a pre-schooler. 


wellygary
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  #2701808 4-May-2021 16:58
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Scott3:

 

Given the goverment has ordered 10m doses for our 4.9m population, it seems the government is expecting approvals for kids to be granted too.

 

 

They might have even more capacity wriggle room if they use 1/2 doses for young kids (like they do with seasonal flu)  


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  #2701810 4-May-2021 17:07
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Scott3:

 

wellygary:

 

I'm very much expecting Pfizer to be approved for kids 5+ by the end of the year, it may be even sooner, and may go even lower... 

 

The next penny to drop will be the any requirement for boosters/updates that we should start to hear about in 6 months, 

 

 

 

 

Given the goverment has ordered 10m doses for our 4.9m population, it seems the government is expecting approvals for kids to be granted too.

 

 

 

 

Remember they also factored in a 5% wastage factor.

 

 

 

 


DS248
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  #2701816 4-May-2021 17:16
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Scott3:

 

...

 

Given the goverment has ordered 10m doses for our 4.9m population, it seems the government is expecting approvals for kids to be granted too.

 

...

 

 

5.1m as at 30 Dec 2020 according to https://www.stats.govt.nz/ (number of people who usually live in New Zealand)

 

==

 

But yes, clearly includes anticipated doses for kids.

 

There should also be plenty for Realm countries as well given that we are very unlikely to exceed 95% penetration (and probably somewhat lower); ie. allowing for those who can't and those who won't. 

 

 


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