2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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20141 posts

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#2769437 31-Aug-2021 17:14

frankv:

Tealeaf:

Would it have made some sense to have one border entry and a larger number of MIQs spread in rural areas of that border entry?

I don't think so. You have the problem of transporting people of unknown covid status from the airport to the MIQ safely. And of course the driver, albeit masked, in that enclosed space with them for a couple of hours. Not a job I'd want, or want for any of my family members, thanks very much. Also, an accident along the way would suddenly become a potential covid outbreak. Another logistical issue example... at Matamata airfield there are a number of Portaloos: covid transportees, Auckland/Rotorua, for the use of. I think they're fenced off from general public access, but don't recall how securely.

Aren't they planning on opening up more MIQs in Rotorua? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/covid-19-delta-outbreak-rotorua-councillors-criticise-possibility-of-more-miq-facilities/BHCW337L4A6W5U4YARJLMCOVZQ/ Guessing they are busing them from Auckland? IMO any driver should also be doing 14 days isolation. There are leaks occurring via MIQ, and it is possible there have been others but they just haven't spread.

GV27

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#2769444 31-Aug-2021 17:24

frankv:

Tealeaf:

Would it have made some sense to have one border entry and a larger number of MIQs spread in rural areas of that border entry?

I don't think so. You have the problem of transporting people of unknown covid status from the airport to the MIQ safely. And of course the driver, albeit masked, in that enclosed space with them for a couple of hours. Not a job I'd want, or want for any of my family members, thanks very much. Also, an accident along the way would suddenly become a potential covid outbreak. Another logistical issue example... at Matamata airfield there are a number of Portaloos: covid transportees, Auckland/Rotorua, for the use of. I think they're fenced off from general public access, but don't recall how securely.

You have all of these problems with our existing MIQ setup with the added issue of plunging the biggest economy in the country into a total meltdown if it gets out. Not sure how many L4 lockdowns people think businesses should be able to weather before considering whether it might come at some sort of wider cost.

Oblivian

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#2769449 31-Aug-2021 17:39

And for todays not so notable changes to the guideline pages

Golfing added to Level 3 activities, 3 and 4 wording has changed slightly to outline stuff a bit clearer in the shopping and what's expected of us.

Under 3 general guide (now front and centre on website) services adjusted with specific 'can have customers on premesis' to exclude anyone else trying it on.

supermarkets
dairies
butchers
fishmongers
greengrocers
food banks
petrol stations
self-service laundries
banks and financial institutions
hardware stores — for trade customers only
health services
pharmacies
accommodation services
courts and tribunals
social and community-based services to maintain critical wellbeing or crisis support
emergency services
Parliamentary services
passenger services, including public transport by road, rail, air or sea
school hostels.

Doing business under 3 has some mods for cross-level work etc etc. Usual adjustments ahead of midnight.

All other retail stores can only open for contactless pick-up and delivery.

tdgeek

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#2769452 31-Aug-2021 17:44

TeaLeaf: I really would have prefered a 4 seasons myself ;-p Yeah I meant like perhaps say Hamilton as an entry and multiple MIQs around neighboring easily accessible rural areas that small cities like Hams and CCH have within close proximity. Welli might be a better choice, I dunno about which border, but it would be preferable to have easy access to rural areas.

I feel its fair to spread the load. But as most MIQ's arrive into AKL then you have to fly planeloads around the country then fly them back. You could force them to fly to AKL, Welly and ChCh, and even Queenstown as its international. They can pick their first choice and go down as choices are removed. I don't see rural working as there are no big hotels there and needs to be near a hospital.

mattwnz

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#2769453 31-Aug-2021 17:49

Under level 3, apparently we can go into peoples homes that are for sale. But they only allow two parties a day can visit, and only 2 people from their same bubble per party. The agent and owner also can't be in the house at the same time. A bit weird they allow this, because the home and the air inside the home, appears to be the most likely place it is transmitted, and we know it can spread by people going into the same internal spaces, like an empty lift, after someone has previously been in that space.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/126159900/heres-how-the-property-market-works-at-different-alert-levels

tdgeek

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#2769454 31-Aug-2021 17:49

Oblivian:

And for todays not so notable changes to the guideline pages

Golfing added to Level 3 activities

It was last year as well, so no change. Play alone or with bubble members. No flags, no seats, no drinking water from any provided fountains, no pro shop

tdgeek

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#2769455 31-Aug-2021 17:52

Oblivian:

And for todays not so notable changes to the guideline pages

Golfing added to Level 3 activities, 3 and 4 wording has changed slightly to outline stuff a bit clearer in the shopping and what's expected of us.

Under 3 general guide (now front and centre on website) services adjusted with specific 'can have customers on premesis' to exclude anyone else trying it on.

supermarkets
dairies
butchers
fishmongers
greengrocers
food banks
petrol stations
self-service laundries
banks and financial institutions
hardware stores — for trade customers only
health services
pharmacies
accommodation services
courts and tribunals
social and community-based services to maintain critical wellbeing or crisis support
emergency services
Parliamentary services
passenger services, including public transport by road, rail, air or sea
school hostels.
Doing business under 3 has some mods for cross-level work etc etc. Usual adjustments ahead of midnight.

All other retail stores can only open for contactless pick-up and delivery.

:-)

Its basically level 4 for most of us. But good that Parliamentary Services is open if I need it... /S

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tdgeek

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#2769457 31-Aug-2021 17:53

mattwnz:

Under level 3, apparently we can go into peoples homes that are for sale. But they only allow two parties a day can visit, and only 2 people from their same bubble per party. The agent and owner also can't be in the house at the same time. A bit weird they allow this, because the home is the most likely place it is transmitted, and we know it can spread by people going into the same internal space, like an empty lift, after someone has previously been in that space.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/126159900/heres-how-the-property-market-works-at-different-alert-levels

It seems like a luxury, but in reality its no worse the going to a butcher, better in fact.

Oblivian

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#2769458 31-Aug-2021 17:55

tdgeek:

Oblivian:

And for todays not so notable changes to the guideline pages

Golfing added to Level 3 activities

It was last year as well, so no change. Play alone or with bubble members. No flags, no seats, no drinking water from any provided fountains, no pro shop

It may have been. But it's an edit to the page adjusted today.

As of the snapshot captured yesterday, it was missing totally.

mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#2769460 31-Aug-2021 17:58

Oblivian:

tdgeek:

It was last year as well, so no change. Play alone or with bubble members. No flags, no seats, no drinking water from any provided fountains, no pro shop

It may have been. But it's an edit to the page adjusted today.

As of the snapshot captured yesterday, it was missing totally.

No seats sounds weird. There are seats outside supermarkets that people are using in level 4. Are there actually instances of cases from people catching it off surfaces? I understand the MIQ case of someone catching it from a bin was debunked. AT the moment the main source of transmission seems to be from breathing in droplets from the air.

Reanalyse

381 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2769461 31-Aug-2021 18:00

Border isolation still seems the way to go. Despite the issues

Even with high "full vaccination rate" of 81% and "one dose rate" at 91% of all people 18 and above, Scotland (my birthplace) with a similar population to NZ had 3,893 new cases on Monday with 551 in hospital , with 52 in intensive care. Source https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-58383606

I wonder if the "good vaccination rate then we can get to normal" will work ?

tdgeek

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#2769463 31-Aug-2021 18:04

Oblivian:

It may have been. But it's an edit to the page adjusted today.

As of the snapshot captured yesterday, it was missing totally.

Might be like the whitebait thing, you cannot list every specific outdoor activity. Actually maybe golf came in in level 3 last year but not at the start as it was not included but should have been. The other issue was maintenance wasn't allowed, but IIRC it is now on a contactless basis I think. You can't leave a golf course and just give it a quick mow weeks later.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

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#2769465 31-Aug-2021 18:08

tdgeek:
TeaLeaf: I really would have prefered a 4 seasons myself ;-p Yeah I meant like perhaps say Hamilton as an entry and multiple MIQs around neighboring easily accessible rural areas that small cities like Hams and CCH have within close proximity. Welli might be a better choice, I dunno about which border, but it would be preferable to have easy access to rural areas.

I feel its fair to spread the load. But as most MIQ's arrive into AKL then you have to fly planeloads around the country then fly them back. You could force them to fly to AKL, Welly and ChCh, and even Queenstown as its international. They can pick their first choice and go down as choices are removed. I don't see rural working as there are no big hotels there and needs to be near a hospital.

4 choices would sound reasonable, but perhaps the number of arrivals spread to take the load off some borders/miqs reducing the potential on over burdened borders/miqs leaking the virus.

But not sure it be would legal to force somebody to MIQ in a city not of their preference and then after 21 days in miq, fly back to their preferred destination, an extended layover of sorts (not an enjoyable one wherever it is spent Im sure).

I read that headline questioning the legality of lockdowns even. In times of civil emergency ie war, pandemics etc, I am not sure if legality is an issue?.....

Do we have any statistics on border arrivals and MIQ centre numbers for each location since they began?

tdgeek

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#2769468 31-Aug-2021 18:10

mattwnz:

No seats sounds weird. There are seats outside supermarkets that people are using in level 4. Are there actually instances of cases from people catching it off surfaces? I understand the MIQ case of someone catching it from a bin was debunked. AT the moment the main source of transmission seems to be from breathing in droplets from the air.

Agree. Was my club did, based on the rules last year was no seats so no spread. No flags as that can spread. No nothing. They placed a hole on the centre of the green as no flag. It was a bit weird as it wa s bit of a drama last year, yet two people max per hole if in same bubble, you wont be in any contact with anyone else. Exercise etc.

Here are the rules for my club

Good afternoon,

We have just received communications from Golf NZ and with the country moving to Level 3 at midnight tonight we can confirm that the course will be able to open for restricted play tomorrow.

For our members who were with us last lockdown, you will be loosely familiar with what this looked like, but for those who weren't and need a refresher, a briefing is below.

General Procedure Briefing:

- The course will be open for 9 HOLES only; you may book in for either the front or back nine.
- The front nine will be holes 1 - 8 and also 18 and the back nine will be holes 10 - 17 and 9. This is to prevent crossover and minimise human interaction in line with the guidelines.

- Play is only permitted as singles or to those who share a bubble; when booking in, one player must book in and then contact us and let us know the additional parties who are going to play - if you do not do this, prepare to be turned away.
- The maximum group size for a bubble is 2 in order to uphold pace of play for the majority which will be singles - if you have a bubble that has more, please contact us directly and we will see what we can do.

- There are no flagsticks permitted or rakes in bunkers, so if you go into a bunker, please just smooth this over with your foot afterwards. Two holes will be cut on the green as per usual so simply play to whatever one you choose.
- All facilities are closed which includes; clubhouse, proshop, toilets, bar/cafe, drinking fountains and even rubbish bins etc..
- Proshop sales are available so if you do need balls, tees, powerades etc these can be purchased, however a staff member will need to retrieve these items for you (contactless service)
- Members guests are permitted as long as they reside in the same bubble and you communicate this with us in advance; rates are $xx for 9 holes and this can be paid onsite via eftpos.
- No carts, trundlers or hire equipment are available for general use. If you have a medical condition or are one of our regular cart users (through necessity) please get in touch with us and we will see what we can arrange.

Arrival/Before Play Procedure:

- Turn up approximately 10-15 minutes before your tee time, any longer before this will require you to wait in your car until directed otherwise.
- You will be signed in at the end of the driveway/beginning of the carpark.
- Ten minutes before your tee time you will get your clubs out and be briefed on play procedures by a staff member before they direct you over to the tee.

Batman

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#2769469 31-Aug-2021 18:12

Reanalyse:
Border isolation still seems the way to go. Despite the issues

Even with high "full vaccination rate" of 81% and "one dose rate" at 91% of all people 18 and above, Scotland (my birthplace) with a similar population to NZ had 3,893 new cases on Monday with 551 in hospital , with 52 in intensive care. Source https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-58383606

I wonder if the "good vaccination rate then we can get to normal" will work ?

the way i see it. The sick rate will never come down.

We then have 2 choices.

either we open, we all get covid, or we close and nobody gets covid.

We would have had 2 years to think about this by next year

It could well be that we close until we have an outbreak we can't contain, and we decide to open up. Which could have been now but looks like we've got this covered.

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