2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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MikeB4
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#2779980 17-Sep-2021 16:58

A drivers licence is a certificate to drive a vehicle. You have the choice to get it and to cancel it. You are only required to present it in the terms of the land transport act. It only has to be on you while using a vehicle. It does not affect your movement, employment (unless a driver), ability to attend functions, travel, educate, earn a living etc etc etc .

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2779982 17-Sep-2021 17:02

Handle9:

A vaccine passport is quite different if it's a requirement to do things necessary to sustain life like go and buy food.

Yes, I get that, the passport used overseas in some countries already is about events, cafes, restaurants, work. Its not about every conceivable activity. Nor is it a change of life for the populous, its a tool within the pandemic to manage it, like all other tools, all of which have curtailed our freedom. Thats why we have managed to get by with lockdowns from time to time. If the passport was anew way to do things from here on in, thats a different story, but its not. Its an option to avoid/reduce lockdowns and death. Like every other curtailment of freedoms that we have had to deal with. In this case, its merely carrying yet another card.

tdgeek

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#2779983 17-Sep-2021 17:06

MikeB4:

A drivers licence is a certificate to drive a vehicle. You have the choice to get it and to cancel it. You are only required to present it in the terms of the land transport act. It only has to be on you while using a vehicle. It does not affect your movement, employment (unless a driver), ability to attend functions, travel, educate, earn a living etc etc etc .

You mean like lockdowns? How many have we had, in what has been a globally rated, successful journey through this pandemic. A number of them, most of which were pre Delta. Thats not the ideal solution to give freedom to us all.

MikeB4

MikeB4
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#2779985 17-Sep-2021 17:07

And when the pandemic is over? what about other medical conditions? A passport detailing disabilities? and so and so. The meek acceptance of this idea frankly terrifies me more than the passport or the pandemic.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2779987 17-Sep-2021 17:11

MikeB4:

And when the pandemic is over? what about other medical conditions? A passport detailing disabilities? and so and so. The meek acceptance of this idea frankly terrifies me more than the passport or the pandemic.

Its a Covid19 Vaccine Passport. Probably the least intrusive tool we have. Its not meek acceptance, its just the acceptance of another tool, amongst many, to combat this pandemic.

ajobbins

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#2779988 17-Sep-2021 17:11

alasta:

Does anyone know how these vaccine passports have been implemented overseas? Is it something you put on your phone and, if so, is there some sort of offline alternative for those who can't use apps, etc?

It's not a 'passport' as such, but here in Oz you get a digital certificate in the Medicare app, which can also be saved for quick access to a Google Pay or Apple Wallet. If requested, the Health Department can also mail you a physical copy.

As long as anyone who genuinely cannot receive a vaccination is protected from being discriminated against, I see it as a far lower impact on liberties than lockdowns.

I don't think making the vaccine itself mandatory is the right approach, but anyone who chooses to ignore the health advice and the science should certainly be subject to more restrictions to protect the health of others. Choices have consequences, so if someone makes a personal choice not to vaccinate and put others at greater risk then they have to accept that choice will come with a different set of freedoms.

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MikeB4

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#2780005 17-Sep-2021 17:16

How exactly is a vaccine passport going to stop the pandemic. It has been shown that those vaccinated can be infected and pass on the virus. The effort to bring a passport would be better put to education, accelerating vaccination, researching effective treatments which is the likely arrester of the virus.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#2780006 17-Sep-2021 17:19

MikeB4:

And when the pandemic is over? what about other medical conditions? A passport detailing disabilities? and so and so. The meek acceptance of this idea frankly terrifies me more than the passport or the pandemic.

I see the point you are making but I just can't feel it the way you do. As a European and frequent international traveller, I am used to the requirement to have identification on my person at all times. I don't feel inhibited by this and I don't feel restricted in any way. My national passport says who I am and carries some ID markers to verify that. I don't see any difference if my vaccination status is added to that. In the past, a requirement of travel between countries also included vaccinations for different diseases and a document verifying that. I just don't see this as a problem.

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Handle9

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#2780007 17-Sep-2021 17:21

MikeB4:

How exactly is a vaccine passport going to stop the pandemic. It has been shown that those vaccinated can be infected and pass on the virus. The effort to bring a passport would be better put to education, accelerating vaccination, researching effective treatments which is the likely arrester of the virus.

It's an incentive for vaccination. In my experience these sort of incentives improve the vaccination rate.

ajobbins

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#2780008 17-Sep-2021 17:23

MikeB4:

How exactly is a vaccine passport going to stop the pandemic. It has been shown that those vaccinated can be infected and pass on the virus. The effort to bring a passport would be better put to education, accelerating vaccination, researching effective treatments which is the likely arrester of the virus.

Vaccinated people are both less likely to contract the virus, and to pass it on. If your goal is zero cases, zero transmission, zero deaths it would not achieve the goal - but by allowing vaccinated people only to participate in activities where that are of higher risk, you lessen the impact to a level that society (and the health system) could accept.

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tdgeek

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#2780009 17-Sep-2021 17:24

ajobbins:

It's not a 'passport' as such, but here in Oz you get a digital certificate in the Medicare app, which can also be saved for quick access to a Google Pay or Apple Wallet. If requested, the Health Department can also mail you a physical copy.

As long as anyone who genuinely cannot receive a vaccination is protected from being discriminated against, I see it as a far lower impact on liberties than lockdowns.

I don't think making the vaccine itself mandatory is the right approach, but anyone who chooses to ignore the health advice and the science should certainly be subject to more restrictions to protect the health of others. Choices have consequences, so if someone makes a personal choice not to vaccinate and put others at greater risk then they have to accept that choice will come with a different set of freedoms.

Agree, but I dont think it mandatory as vaccination is not mandatory. Overseas, the pandemic is developing into an epidemic of the unvaccinated. Vaccines are not 100% effective so there is no desire to place those that didn't fall into the effectiveness % at risk. You can still catch it and spread it but the viral load is lower, but at these events that are used, the best defence is mitigating the risk of mass contamination at these events and workplaces.

It seems that this subject will become a conspiracy theory topic.

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MikeB4

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#2780014 17-Sep-2021 17:41

Rikkitic:

I see the point you are making but I just can't feel it the way you do. As a European and frequent international traveller, I am used to the requirement to have identification on my person at all times. I don't feel inhibited by this and I don't feel restricted in any way. My national passport says who I am and carries some ID markers to verify that. I don't see any difference if my vaccination status is added to that. In the past, a requirement of travel between countries also included vaccinations for different diseases and a document verifying that. I just don't see this as a problem.

I am trying hard not to fracture the FUG here. It is because I am European that the meek acceptance of this idea scares me a lot. If we are going to go down this path there has to be thorough consultation, independent oversight, strict governance and a legislative goal and time to leave. Its rules must be applied and tied to the principles of our legislated rights.

New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 No 109 (as at 01 July 2013), Public Act Contents – New Zealand Legislation

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Handle9

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#2780015 17-Sep-2021 17:51

MikeB4:

Rikkitic:

I see the point you are making but I just can't feel it the way you do. As a European and frequent international traveller, I am used to the requirement to have identification on my person at all times. I don't feel inhibited by this and I don't feel restricted in any way. My national passport says who I am and carries some ID markers to verify that. I don't see any difference if my vaccination status is added to that. In the past, a requirement of travel between countries also included vaccinations for different diseases and a document verifying that. I just don't see this as a problem.

I am trying hard not to fracture the FUG here. It is because I am European that the meek acceptance of this idea scares me a lot. If we are going to go down this path there has to be thorough consultation, independent oversight, strict governance and a legislative goal and time to leave. Its rules must be applied and tied to the principles of our legislated rights.

New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 No 109 (as at 01 July 2013), Public Act Contents – New Zealand Legislation

The Bill of Rights Act is thankfully not a constitution. It can be changed by an act of parliament.

A number of those rights have been correctly limited by measures made necessary by the pandemic.

PolicyGuy

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#2780024 17-Sep-2021 18:25

alasta:

Does anyone know how these vaccine passports have been implemented overseas? Is it something you put on your phone and, if so, is there some sort of offline alternative for those who can't use apps, etc?

The Stuff article includes this picture:

and is headed up by a video with Air NZ's CEO demonstrating the ICAO smartphone vaccine passport

On2or3wheels

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#2780045 17-Sep-2021 20:46

The PM has already said a vaccine passport will never be required for essential food, & I would imagine all other essential services.
I'm not sure our government really wants it but business seems to be pushing it as a way to open up, and of course if other countries require it for travel then we need to provide something. This government has been pretty good in regards to privacy.

I would rather this though than ever signing up to Facebook

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