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mattwnz:
I am talking about suburbs only. The PM said today that she wants an entire suburb to all get tested. You have gone way off on a tangent.
Where did you mention suburbs? Is Clover Park full of overstayers? Bears no resemblance to your post
tdgeek:
Agree. We have cases every day its not improving. But if in my street we had 5 errant households mixing with others but complying with the Level 4 rules, that means that 1. a string of cases 2. no community spread (or at least low risk as they are mandated to wear masks for essential purchases)
We don't know if it is improving because we are only getting a small part of the story. The numbers doesn't tell the full story because you could have a large number of cases in just one household. We don't know the details of the cases to really judge. But they wouldn't have moved to level 3 if they didn't expect these cases in these areas.
mattwnz:
The PM said today that she wants an entire suburb to all get tested.
haven't watched the news today but didn't they also want 7 suburbs to be tested the other day? did they do it? easy to say, but nobody seems to action
tdgeek:
mattwnz:
I am talking about suburbs only. The PM said today that she wants an entire suburb to all get tested. You have gone way off on a tangent.
Where did you mention suburbs? Is Clover Park full of overstayers? Bears no resemblance to your post
In my previous post when mentioning Clover park. There could be overstayers dotted all over Auckland and NZ.
Oblivian:
Transcripts out on the earlier 50/60
Back to yesterday’s five unlinked cases, four of those are closely geographically linked to
existing households that have cases, and there are strong leads. Just one is still under
investigation. Obviously, that lower number of 14 cases today is encouraging, but we do
expect the numbers to bounce around a bit. Based on the number of very close contacts we
already have in isolation, mostly household contacts, we would expect another 50 or 60
further cases just from that group over the coming week or two.
That's going to skew things slightly going forward to know what impact 3 does or does not bring :/
/edit Presumably that raises a further question. Do they get 1 chance to all live at home in larger household case scenarios, rather than all need to be moved out and locked up in JetPark or similar. With breaches equating to a move... While we have some seemingly obvious neighbours not at war (or avoiding)
umm so either the virus can fly around suburbs infecting people, in which case testing to get 60 cases won't work because it will fly around infecting another 600
so are the people mingling, if they are mingling then testing for 60 cases won't work because they will keep mingling and produce another 60 cases by the time you've got the 60 cases.
the saga continues ...
mattwnz:
We don't know if it is improving because we are only getting a small part of the story. The numbers doesn't tell the full story because you could have a large number of cases in just one household. We don't know the details of the cases to really judge. But they wouldn't have moved to level 3 if they didn't expect these cases in these areas.
We do know that the majority of cases are intermingling households. Enough that Dr A quoted he expects 50/60 from these alone to surface over the coming week. That tells me that the overwhelming majority of cases are not randoms infecting randoms. If a prison got 14 cases then 20 cases a day its no issue as they are all locked up. Same applies to Level 4 in Auckland , and now 3, they are all "locked up" Now, if most of the daily 14 to 20 cases are surprises, then its game over, but thats not the case
Batman:
mattwnz:
The PM said today that she wants an entire suburb to all get tested.
haven't watched the news today but didn't they also want 7 suburbs to be tested the other day? did they do it? easy to say, but nobody seems to action
I am not sure. I recall they were doing surveillance testing and they picked up cases from that, which is no a good sign IMO. My concern is that some experts have concerns over the move to level 3 before really ring fencing all cases, and that it will be more difficult to eliminate once in level 3. Previously before we moved down to level 3, I recall there were far less cases per day being picked up, and they were all known contacts, many who were already in isolation.
mattwnz:
In my previous post when mentioning Clover park. There could be overstayers dotted all over Auckland and NZ.
I quoted one of your posts, that did not mention Clover Park, so its no tangent. Yes, there could be overstayers all over Auckland. But seemingly, only the very few number of suburbs have errant overstayers? The epicentre of this outbreak is very clear. That its not all over Auckland shows its contained in the suburbs of interest, as I expanded upon. AND the spread of the virus is between households (not great) as compared to a more general spread such as NSW
tdgeek:
Not being flippant, but if you took over Dr A's job today, what would you do to resolve this outbreak?
I have said it previously. I would put the suburbs were CT was occurring into a level 4.5 and give them helicopter payments so they don't need to work, and it takes the pressure off them. So a proper lockdown to keep people isolated from one another. Then very strict enforcing to make sure people didn't flout the rules. Some of the experts have previously mentioned that level 4 restrictions may need to be increased for delta if case number didn't drop.
The thing is that the government has increased the fines today anyway.
tdgeek: Agree. We have cases every day its not improving. But if in my street we had 5 errant households mixing with others but complying with the Level 4 rules, that means that 1. a string of cases 2. no community spread (or at least low risk as they are mandated to wear masks for essential purchases)
Scott3:
Our world in data (which has slightly favorable NZ population number), Has us as having passed the USA for first doses, and fast closing in on the EU and Israel.
We have been hitting vaccination out of the park over the last month.
And from the 1pm press conference we know that Auckland (objectively the area of most concern) is slightly ahead of the country overall on first doses. (77% of eligible if I recall correctly vs 74% for the nation overall). Government has a stretch goal for Auckland of 90% of eligible by the time that our level 3 status is reviewed in just under two weeks.
We are seeing signs that we are starting to the hard bit of the vaccination program in terms of getting first doses into people. Yesterday Second doses passed first doses (25,674 vs 24,522), which I can't recall having recently. Hopefully all the government effort will have us at least approaching that stretch goal.
If the decision to go to level 3 tonight does lead to increasing case numbers, (possibly with daily cases topping 1000 in November / December), Our vaccination level is going to be super important.
We know that UK and Israel vaccine numbers arn't quite enough. We have the advantage of fairly fresh vaccines, a fairly low population density. But both those countries have the advantage of some natural immunity form actual infections.
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Regarding the general state of play.
All the Media experts are using fairly guarded negitive terms "moving to level 3 is a risk", I think the skepticism here of Auckland ability to decrease case numbers is fairly in line with this.
Watched the TV1 press conference feed today. They had yesterdays number of cases infections in the community in the ticker as 9. Good to see them highlighting this important data point.
So the sequence for 17 Sept - 21 sept data releases are: 9,7,6,6,9. We are not even close to being on top of this.
We also know that the virus has now found it's way into two rival gangs. Obviously a massive challenger for containment attempts.
Haven't found the health order for Level 3 yet. Very interested to see if they mandate vaccinated over 65's to stay home, but think it is probiably just a suggestion.
You might have noticed from the same series of graphs, our vaccination rate has dropped from a peak of around 1.6 doses per 100 people per day in late August and early September, to something closer to 1.0 now.
Meanwhile it's easier to get a vaccination now than it was in the beginning of September. Now that we appear to be past our peak, maybe someone can do some curve fitting to predict where we might be in a few weeks or months.
It would be good to know the vaccination rates for each area and whether there is a correlation with people coming out of level 3/4. Perhaps they feel there no longer any rush to get vaccinated. It would not surprise me if the same is beginning to happen in Auckland, where many people perceive it to be a "South Auckland" problem.
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I can see L3 being extended for at least another two weeks otherwise it'll go to L2 right on school holidays. A perfect time to start travelling over NZ and spread the love.
Been keeping tabs on Victoria?
Workplaces mandating vaccination. This was the result. Construction halted for 2 weeks. And likely to cost $6bn
Will be weighing as something to think about now for the unions etc considering this. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-no-jab-no-entry-policies-mulled-as-hungry-businesses-want-to-open-up/S4W6LTWKQ37GTNBU7P4U6TXTYU/
Oblivian:
Been keeping tabs on Victoria?
Workplaces mandating vaccination. This was the result. Construction halted for 2 weeks. And likely to cost $6bn
Will be weighing as something to think about now for the unions etc considering this. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-no-jab-no-entry-policies-mulled-as-hungry-businesses-want-to-open-up/S4W6LTWKQ37GTNBU7P4U6TXTYU/
I heard someone in Australia say it was soon going to be the same for IT/Telecoms contractors and staff wanting to go onto a Telstra, Optus or VHA site and at least Telsta appears to be making it an official requirement.
Edit: if you have problems accessing this article, try searching from google and following the google link and you should be able to read the whole thing.
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