2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 1805 | 1806 | 1807 | 1808 | 1809 | 1810 | 1811 | 1812 | 1813 | 1814 | 1815 | ... | 2422

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2787022 30-Sep-2021 13:35

GV27:

"Ardern says she wants to signal the high likelihood of the Auckland boundary remaining. Full consideration is being given to easing. Removing that regional boundary is not in consideration."

Well, there it is. Unsurprising but also pretty much the key difference between L2 and L3.

Auckland's not getting out of Level 3 next week,

The spike in VIC cases today (1400+) should scare the bejesus out of NZ Health officials,

[VIC are 49% fully and 79% partially vaxxed]- so slightly higher than AK and NZ...

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2787028 30-Sep-2021 13:37

Even if the entire Country is at Level 2 (but Auckland still has Covid in the community) you can understand those outside of Auckland wanting the border controls to remain.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2787031 30-Sep-2021 13:44

wellygary:

Auckland's not getting out of Level 3 next week,

The spike in VIC cases today (1400+) should scare the bejesus out of NZ Health officials,

[VIC are 49% fully and 79% partially vaxxed]- so slightly higher than AK and NZ...

Given her comments, I'd say there's every chance Auckland will go to some hybrid version of L2.

Added benefit of getting them off the hook for earlier saying the rest of NZ can't go to L1 if Auckland is at L3.

If you mess with L2 to the point where it is functionally the same as L3 then that gets you off the hook for L1 everywhere else.

But the key differences between L2 and L3 are mixing of households (which is a key driver in current transmission, apparently) and cross-border travel.

trig42

5809 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2787033 30-Sep-2021 13:44

GV27:

"Ardern says she wants to signal the high likelihood of the Auckland boundary remaining. Full consideration is being given to easing. Removing that regional boundary is not in consideration."

Well, there it is. Unsurprising but also pretty much the key difference between L2 and L3.

This really grinds my gears.

Why change down a level if they aren't confident the virus isn't spreading?

I think the government is losing their grip on the people here. we've been pretty compliant, and generally happy with the response, but moving Auckland to Level 2 where everyone is back at work, Hospo etc. is open means any undetected virus is going to multiply, just signifies they've put their hands in the air and given up.

I don't want to be in Level 2 if I can't go visit the kids/grandkids, and my own parents. I've been sitting at home since mid-AUgust to earn that right, and now they're giving us 'freedom' but stil only at home. pfft.

Put us back to level 4 I say, until they've squashed it, or let it run.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2787042 30-Sep-2021 14:04

trig42:Put us back to level 4 I say, until they've squashed it, or let it run.

There's just enough people out there that don't recognise Level 4 or Level 3 to mean it won't work again.

Really it's a matter of timing now. It's worth going a few more weeks for vaccination, but after that there's the same outcome either sooner with less borrowed or later with more borrowed for the younger generation to pay back.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2787046 30-Sep-2021 14:08

trig42:

This really grinds my gears.

Why change down a level if they aren't confident the virus isn't spreading?

Agreed, allowing households to mix and hospo to fire up but still insisting on the need for a hard border is bizarre.

JPNZ

1542 posts

Uber Geek

#2787049 30-Sep-2021 14:11

GV27:

Given her comments, I'd say there's every chance Auckland will go to some hybrid version of L2.

Added benefit of getting them off the hook for earlier saying the rest of NZ can't go to L1 if Auckland is at L3.

If you mess with L2 to the point where it is functionally the same as L3 then that gets you off the hook for L1 everywhere else.

But the key differences between L2 and L3 are mixing of households (which is a key driver in current transmission, apparently) and cross-border travel.

Yep, reading between the lines means it may head this way. Its starting to get political in letting the rest of NZ get to L1.

Panasonic 65GZ1000, Onkyo RZ730, Atmos 5.1.2, AppleTV 4K, Nest Mini's, PS5, PS3, MacbookPro, iPad Pro, Apple watch SE2, iPhone 15+

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2787052 30-Sep-2021 14:18

JPNZ:

Yep, reading between the lines means it may head this way. Its starting to get political in letting the rest of NZ get to L1.

I wouldn't say it's political by design because I can simply see this kind of thing being a naturally crappy outcome you got to organically, but it still gives that impression. Like I can see how there's possibly a pragmatic approach underpinning it, but the very need for it suggests we aren't really ready for any other key elements of level 2.

Like I can accept the need for an ongoing border, but I can't reconcile the other characteristics of L2 like households mixing and hospo firing up if there is a genuine need for the hard border in the first place.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2787053 30-Sep-2021 14:22

JPNZ:

Yep, reading between the lines means it may head this way. Its starting to get political in letting the rest of NZ get to L1.

There will have to be a pretty big backtrack from the Govt for the rest of the country to go to 1 while an AK border exists,

The Auckland border only exists because there is community transmission going on in Auckland, and we have been told by the PM that if a case crossed the border it would quickly spread in a level 1 location.. hence Level 2 and indoor masking...

If the border stays, the rest of NZ remains at 2...

mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#2787054 30-Sep-2021 14:24

GV27:

trig42:

This really grinds my gears.

Why change down a level if they aren't confident the virus isn't spreading?

Agreed, allowing households to mix and hospo to fire up but still insisting on the need for a hard border is bizarre.

Level 3 and 4 are elimination. Moving down from these when there is still uncontrolled community transmission will IMO mean elimination is over and Auckland will be living with the virus and relying on suppression and vaccination. So borders will be remaining. But vaccination has hit a wall and we don’t have any short term natural immunity in children who can’t be immunised unlike the Uk, where 50% of children may have had covid, and lots of adults too. It is like watching a slow train crash imo. The way Covid has become even more political in the last week or so is not helping imo,.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2787063 30-Sep-2021 14:29

If there is a border with community covid on one side and no covid on the other the border needs to stay.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2787079 30-Sep-2021 14:49

Buster:

If there is a border with community covid on one side and no covid on the other the border needs to stay.

...but within that region, pubs can open for sit-down meals, people can mix households and there is no restriction on travelling across the region and a huge increase in recreation and where you're allowed to do it?

mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#2787080 30-Sep-2021 14:50

trig42:

GV27:

"Ardern says she wants to signal the high likelihood of the Auckland boundary remaining. Full consideration is being given to easing. Removing that regional boundary is not in consideration."

Well, there it is. Unsurprising but also pretty much the key difference between L2 and L3.

This really grinds my gears.

Why change down a level if they aren't confident the virus isn't spreading?

I think the government is losing their grip on the people here. we've been pretty compliant, and generally happy with the response, but moving Auckland to Level 2 where everyone is back at work, Hospo etc. is open means any undetected virus is going to multiply, just signifies they've put their hands in the air and given up.

I don't want to be in Level 2 if I can't go visit the kids/grandkids, and my own parents. I've been sitting at home since mid-AUgust to earn that right, and now they're giving us 'freedom' but stil only at home. pfft.

Put us back to level 4 I say, until they've squashed it, or let it run.

Moving down to level 3 IMO was a lazy move from the government, but they will likely say it was recommended by the MOH. They should have said, well this isn't working, and there are too many flouters. We need to crack down on these particular areas, and really ring fence it. I mean they know households are intermingling, and that is where it is spreading, and the areas it is spreading. But it seems they ran out of ideas. IMO there is not much point in Auckland being in Level 3 now, if they plan on dropping to a level 2 next week, or easing restrictions, because it means they have given up and are solely focused on vaccination as a way out, and hoping to suppress cases. Instead the messaging to the public should be stay at home, starve the virus of new hosts like it was last year, and everyone got behind. That is not the messaging we have been getting. Some of the media have also been poor, during level 4 IMO they undermined level 4, and influenced people into thinking people were over the restrictions, and that delta was not possible to eliminate, and then used Victoria and NSW as examples. Rather than looking at Taiwan, Queensland, or South Australia etc who did eliminate it. Then it was a party of fastfood when level 3 occurred, and the predictable media were there interviewing people with their unhealthy food.

mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#2787085 30-Sep-2021 15:03

cshwone:

GV27:

If this is true and it's the only thing that's going to change (we know we don't have to hit 0 cases a day to move down alert levels because we've been told that) between now and when we can travel throughout NZ then I'd love to know the justification for keeping Auckland behind a hard border, because it would effectively become meaningless.

Another problem is that with the big drive to get Auckland vaccinated, as soon as the hard border is removed then there is a fair chance that asymptomatic vaccinated people from Auckland could spread the virus around the rest of the country. The only solution I can see is to get everyone vaccinated asap, not just Auckland.

Yes this is something I have thought about, where having a large number of people vaccinated, could mean that the virus spreads silently around the population. People may just get mild colds etc.So it is then harder to detect. A large part of the future seems to be surveillance testing, so I suspect a lot of people are randomly going to detect positive when testing is needed. eg if they travel overseas. I can't see how it can be suppressed once we are living with the virus in the community, as it will be impossible to contact trace or really contain IMO. It will largely become a sickness for the unvaccinated and they will be the ones filling up the hospitals. IMO we are going to need Covid centres to take the load off the hospitals, maybe by turning hotels into covid centres. National even admitted yesterday that their plans with opening up with a reasonably low vaccination rate would likely overwhelm hospitals, but then compared the risk to be simila rto the risk of a car accident, which was a bit bizarre.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2787086 30-Sep-2021 15:05

GV27:...but within that region, pubs can open for sit-down meals, people can mix households and there is no restriction on travelling across the region and a huge increase in recreation and where you're allowed to do it?

Sensible people would stay informed, stay the course, stamp Covid out. In real life there are some idiots or other people (where Covid isn't the biggest thing happening in their life) that won't allow it.

1 | ... | 1805 | 1806 | 1807 | 1808 | 1809 | 1810 | 1811 | 1812 | 1813 | 1814 | 1815 | ... | 2422