heavenlywild: It comes down to personal responsibility.

No responsibility, then risk dying.

Simple.

Buster:

heavenlywild: Vaccinate or increase your chance of dying. End of story.

Open the borders. Everyone's been given enough time to get jabbed. Ok, give everyone until 1 Dec 2021.

Give people a carrot and a stick.

And what about the children?

Handle9:

Buster: Here's a scenario.

Australia an NZ both vaccinate to 90%.
NZ is overwhelmed with Covid anyway.
Australia is Covid free.

Australia throws open its border with NZ. Yeah Right.

So what?

Buster:

Handle9: 

So what?

OK. Here's an easier one.

With great fanfare, Australia, with uncontrolled (+2000 new cases a day) covid in the community, throws open their borders.

Do the Cook Islands reciprocate?

Who cares? It has no impact on what NZ chooses to do.

Buster: All I'm really saying is NZ shouldn't be rushed or bullied by the Australian PM or the Airlines into another bubble.

I don't think external pressure will play a big factor on the decision of when to open up. Internal pressure is a different story.

heavenlywild:

Either way the Aussies will be putting pressure on the NZ govt to get moving:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/126556511/australia-to-reopen-international-borders-next-month 

Handle9:

Buster: All I'm really saying is NZ shouldn't be rushed or bullied by the Australian PM or the Airlines into another bubble.

I don't think external pressure will play a big factor on the decision of when to open up. Internal pressure is a different story.

heavenlywild:

Handle 9:

I don't think external pressure will play a big factor on the decision of when to open up. Internal pressure is a different story.

You think? External pressure increases internal pressure.

If other countries are proactive NZ is gonna look pretty dumb still locking down in 2 years time if you don't want any cases and live like a hermit.

Soon no airline will bother turning up and NZ will have no logistics to bring anything in. Think about that.

Buster: 

With great fanfare, Australia, with uncontrolled (+2000 new cases a day) covid in the community, throw open their borders.

Do the Cook Islands reciprocate?

IMO it is purely a political move by a PM who wants to keep their job at election time.

The fineprint shows that it is very restricted, and they are not just throwing their doors open. People have to still be double vaccinated and isolate at home for 7 days and be Australians. NZ is already trialing a 14 day similar home isolation thing. So nothing really that new here. What does confuse me about NZs trial for it, is why people need to be NZ citizens, and not just permanent residents. Seems odd. Do they trust NZ citizens more?

heavenlywild: It comes down to personal responsibility. No responsibility, then risk dying. Simple.

Handle9:

How is Australia a long way off? NSW is over 85% first dose. They will likely be opening up to international travel sometime in late October or early November. That’s hardly a long way off.

Aussies will be putting pressure on the NZ govt to get moving

We are a long way off getting moving. We will be behind on vaccination, and being as conservative as we are here, and that AUS is quite happy to put economics before lives, we will be well behind them. The benefit of that is by then, science may have uncovered more facts that will allow our opening up to be as protective of deaths as it can be. 

Buster:

heavenlywild: Vaccinate or increase your chance of dying. End of story.

Open the borders. Everyone's been given enough time to get jabbed. Ok, give everyone until 1 Dec 2021.

Give people a carrot and a stick.

And what about the children?

Yep. We need 5+ vaccinated, and soon maybe, there may be 2+ vaccines. IIRC there trials are young kids get 1/2 doses, toddlers get 1/10 doses, along those lines.

Babies born to vaccinated mothers are covered as was in the news a week or so back. IMO there are real options to head towards population vaccines, not just eligibles as we have now. By then boosters will have more information, so go after the early vaccinated. If all that could come to pass, thats a strong situation. Also what has been raised is at home healthcare to ease the hospital burden. If most get mild symptoms, stay home, and here are treatments to help, etc. In the future, all this could align quite well. But right now we are fighting an outbreak as most other countries are, fighting the jab war, and trials continue on young and very young children. Science will also add to this over time.