2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2797117 18-Oct-2021 14:39

@TeaLeaf:

Either do "something" or open NZ up now, I believe this Govt has shown a lack of courage of conviction during the last election, I do not see them doing any different this one (ie know defined targets during the last minute "stages" concept).

@TeaLeaf:

Along with some transparency from the Govt. Jacinda especially is not very good at politics (not saying she is not good at policy concepts), answering without an answer, using body language ie nodding a head or shaking a head while giving a fake smile or frown depending on which answer she wants, all text book 101 politics. None of that is helping and its very amateur, good politicians know when to just be transparent, much like poker, sometimes you do have to just call for the sake of keeping things on the level

I said no more politics. So you are locked out of this topic.

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#2797131 18-Oct-2021 14:55

@Rikkitic - fully understood. This is not a dig at the pollys as I suspect I’d get a similar response if the colour of government was red, green, blue, or yellow.

My dig was more that given that we have Auckland in lockdown and covid in the community, I was alarmed at how open the hospitals were.

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#2797133 18-Oct-2021 14:59

Rikkitic:

People often seem to forget that ministries are huge government bureaucracies employing large numbers of people to carry out various tasks. These people do not come and go with different governments. They are professional civil servants, serving whatever government is in power. Of course they are supposed to implement the policy decisions of the current government, but how they go about that is largely determined by internal processes.

Without really knowing, I strongly suspect that the Ministry of Health is dysfunctional, and has been for a long time. This has nothing to do with the current government or any other. It goes much deeper than that. I think a lot of the mistakes that have been made are a result of this dysfunction. This is almost impossible to fix, as it would require a complete culture change. Maybe once Covid is settled and part of daily life, some future government can just cancel the entire ministry, and start over again.

I think it's been evident for some time the MOH is dysfunctional. The mental health report showed that. I recall reading somewhere that right at the start of the pandemic when the "whole of government" approach was kicked off all the government departments involved all started working together, except for the MOH who went in their own direction.

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GV27

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#2797148 18-Oct-2021 15:20

Technofreak:

I think it's been evident for some time the MOH is dysfunctional. The mental health report showed that. I recall reading somewhere that right at the start of the pandemic when the "whole of government" approach was kicked off all the government departments involved all started working together, except for the MOH who went in their own direction.

I'm a bit wary to single the MOH out for special treatment - when a pandemic shows up, yea it's likely they'll be the ones who clown something up. But other departments have had substantial issues; immigration is a mess, for example.

Whether there's a culture of non-delivery in our public sector as a whole is probably a reasonable question, but possibly one for another thread.

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#2797158 18-Oct-2021 15:34

I see that they are talking about putting Auckland back in Level Four as a "circuit breaker".

Totally the wrong thing to do, from my perspective as an Aucklander. I, and my family, have been restricted in everything now for over 60 days plus with no end in sight despite doing all that was asked of us.

Punished further with additional restrictions is not for me acceptable. It is like when the whole class in school got detention for the actions of one or two who would not be responsible- major resentment of teachers resulted.

Resentment of politicians, and "out of Auckland experts", is likewise building.

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#2797163 18-Oct-2021 15:37

GV27:

Technofreak:

I think it's been evident for some time the MOH is dysfunctional. The mental health report showed that. I recall reading somewhere that right at the start of the pandemic when the "whole of government" approach was kicked off all the government departments involved all started working together, except for the MOH who went in their own direction.

I'm a bit wary to single the MOH out for special treatment - when a pandemic shows up, yea it's likely they'll be the ones who clown something up. But other departments have had substantial issues; immigration is a mess, for example.

Whether there's a culture of non-delivery in our public sector as a whole is probably a reasonable question, but possibly one for another thread.

Don't get me started on immigration, however there's other things at play there I suspect.

Agree. Much wider questions all round that need addressing in another forum/thread.

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#2797165 18-Oct-2021 15:49

Meanwhile Maori leaders say Maori & PI vaccination rates too low for mystery traffic lights system

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126710484/mounting-opposition-to-governments-proposed-new-traffic-light-system-for-covid19-restrictions

mattwnz

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#2797166 18-Oct-2021 15:50

Reanalyse:

Resentment of politicians, and "out of Auckland experts", is likewise building.

The people to blame are those flouting the rules. The PM said that the number growth are higher than expected, and the MOH has said that their modeling expects cases to double in a few weeks. What would your solution be to stop the exponential growth without a circuit breaker before December?
IMO if it had really been cracked down on in Level 4, IMO Auckland could be almost be completely out of lockdown by now, because as the PM said the L4 lockdown was working and cases were obviously dropping back, and Delta just had a long tail.. At the moment it looks like the contact tracing is overwhelmed and they aren't doing as much tracing now either.

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#2797167 18-Oct-2021 15:50

Rikkitic:

People often seem to forget that ministries are huge government bureaucracies employing large numbers of people to carry out various tasks. These people do not come and go with different governments. They are professional civil servants, serving whatever government is in power. Of course they are supposed to implement the policy decisions of the current government, but how they go about that is largely determined by internal processes.

Without really knowing, I strongly suspect that the Ministry of Health is dysfunctional, and has been for a long time. This has nothing to do with the current government or any other. It goes much deeper than that. I think a lot of the mistakes that have been made are a result of this dysfunction. This is almost impossible to fix, as it would require a complete culture change. Maybe once Covid is settled and part of daily life, some future government can just cancel the entire ministry, and start over again.

Promotions that tick boxes and promoted to one's level of incompetence are the biggest issues with government departments.

Being told you are overpaid by the public and no benefits whatsoever are retention issues so don't keep the good ones either

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#2797168 18-Oct-2021 15:53

Technofreak:I think it's been evident for some time the MOH is dysfunctional. The mental health report showed that. I recall reading somewhere that right at the start of the pandemic when the "whole of government" approach was kicked off all the government departments involved all started working together, except for the MOH who went in their own direction.

The MOH focus is on Health and all their efforts are focussed on that. Their own direction? Yep. Not business, or Tourism, or Education. Someone else puts forward all that into the overall Covid response.

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#2797170 18-Oct-2021 15:56

mattwnz:

The people to blame are those flouting the rules.

I'd love for it to be this black and white, but we've learned that the police effectively sanctioned Tamaki's lockdown protest by giving some sort of go ahead to it.

That's an incredibly poor look for Aucklanders who are doing the right thing, or at least trying their hardest to at no short personal cost.

The people we expect to be enforcing lockdowns indulging these kind of idiots burns goodwill faster than you can possibly imagine.

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#2797173 18-Oct-2021 16:15

At least 2 more weeks of level 3, step one restrictions for Aucklanders.

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GV27

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#2797174 18-Oct-2021 16:18

Level 3 "works if people follow the rules".

Except they aren't, so why are we sticking with it for two more weeks?

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#2797175 18-Oct-2021 16:18

*scratches head* Level 3, If followed - will make a difference

If that was the case, wouldn't be extending it another 2...

SNAP! just as the reporter said the same thing

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#2797177 18-Oct-2021 16:21

So we can't live week by week, but we're now getting at least two more weeks with a set of rules we know only work if people comply with them, but that people aren't complying with?

I'm not sure I'm quite getting the messaging right here, are we making any progress at all with this?

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