2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2800293 24-Oct-2021 14:08

I've always wondered what the anti-vaxxers "endgame" is? What's their goal, apart from preventing people to get vaccinated? Say they achieve this...then what? Declare victory and everyone goes home to die of coronavirus? Doesn't sound like a "win" to me.

bluey

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#2800294 24-Oct-2021 14:09

I suspect there are quite a few anti-vaxers that know they are wrong by now. Novavax will allow them to join the winning team without having to admit their error regarding pfizer.

arcon

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#2800298 24-Oct-2021 14:27

quickymart:

I've always wondered what the anti-vaxxers "endgame" is? What's their goal, apart from preventing people to get vaccinated? Say they achieve this...then what? Declare victory and everyone goes home to die of coronavirus? Doesn't sound like a "win" to me.

For the hardcore anti-vaxxers mental illness doesn't have an endgame. Its irrational by nature.

Oblivian

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#2800299 24-Oct-2021 14:28

Here's a scenario that I thought of during lunch.
So in a few weeks (hopefully) we are going to have a requirement to show certificates for free access, or if you do not wish to support certificates impose restrictions/limits similar to now.

At the moment we've been focusing on all the cool things we're going to be able to do with the certificate. Listening to all the anti government control mob saying it's discrimination

But what happens when you flip that, to the likes of that cafe up North that was making vaccinated people sit outside. if they turn around and say they're not going to custom anyone who has been.

Is obviously implications for those that didn't want to support the scheme. But doesn't appear to be anything outside that to stop businesses refusing anyone who is...

mattwnz

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#2800300 24-Oct-2021 14:32

rugrat:
Why are they allowing people to travel to the S.I. when the traffic light system is not ready to go????

Most people I’ve spoken with are not interested in lockdowns when every precaution is not being taken to keep the risk down of it coming to S.I.

I had contact with a few people who were in Blenheim couple days ago, here’s hoping it is not spreading.

Or why are people allowed to cross the border without being vaccinated, including essential workers. People have now had enough time. It increases the risk to all NZers.

GV27

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#2800301 24-Oct-2021 14:33

Oblivian:

Is obviously implications for those that didn't want to support the scheme. But doesn't appear to be anything outside that to stop businesses refusing anyone who is...

If they don't play ball, they are stuck with the old alert level trading rules; masks, extremely limited capacity, etc.

They can only unlock those more open rules by adopting the conditions in the traffic light system, like checking for vaccinations etc.

Oblivian

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#2800352 24-Oct-2021 14:48

GV27:
They can only unlock those more open rules by adopting the conditions in the traffic light system, like checking for vaccinations etc.

Yeah I understand that. That's why I mentioned the ability to still trade under restrictions. But still lets them trade and they can do so to who they choose to exclude

I guess their out will be that they can refuse to trade with somebody as it's a private place. But the govt is essentially backing no vax no trade, but not the flip of vax, no trade. So with that cafe as an example will be interesting to see another divisible fight rise.

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Buster

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#2800353 24-Oct-2021 14:48

Some antivax are pushing natural immunity. At 0.11% cases so far in NZ, that will take a while?

quickymart

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#2800354 24-Oct-2021 14:53

My thoughts, (sorry for the political tangent) that's along the lines of the "herd immunity" bs that Trump was pushing last year when he was tired of talking about coronavirus. Unfortunately as he found, it's not like chickenpox (ie, catch it and never get it again); this virus doesn't work that way.

GV27

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#2800358 24-Oct-2021 15:00

Oblivian:

I guess their out will be that they can refuse to trade with somebody as it's a private place. But the govt is essentially backing no vax no trade, but not the flip of vax, no trade. So with that cafe as an example will be interesting to see another divisible fight rise.

Isn't the business support also tied to whether you could in theory be fully open if you were checking vaccination certificates? Robertson strongly signalled he didn't want that extra funding going to businesses who could be fully open but were choosing not to.

I'm guessing that most cafes etc are going to struggle if they're a) only going to support a very small portion of their potential market and b) intend on actually complying with those increased restrictions for businesses who choose not to check for vaccine passports etc.

My guess is that a huge number that go down the a) route will end up conveniently thumbing their nose at b) and end up also trying to claim the support they shouldn't be getting under the traffic light system.

Batman

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#2800363 24-Oct-2021 15:24

Technofreak:
I see reports of individuals and at least one community say they're holding out for the Novavax vaccine.

I see these comments as just an excuse for not being vaccinated rather than wanting a "better" vaccine than the Pfizer vaccine. Novavax hasn't been approved by MedSafe and I'm not even sure our government has ordered any Novavax. Waiting for something that might not arrive seems a very silly course of action.

A couple of questions.

Is Novavax that much better than Pfizer to justify waiting for?

If/when Novavax is approved and ordered by our government is there any reason why it couldn't be used as a follow up/booster for Pfizer. In other words does having the Pfizer vaccine now stop you from having the Novavax vaccine at a later date?

I'm not an immunologist but my logic says, take what's on offer now and if/when Novavax becomes available use that as a follow up at the appropriate time. Holding off is just stupid. We don't keep holding off for a better car, cell phone, TV or whatever, there's always going to be a better one in the future. We buy what's on offer now to take advantage of the real benefits we can get now rather than wait for yet to be proven possible future benefits.

That's what their cult leader is preaching.

Spoke to a few antivax today and guess what, their entire story have changed and this is what they all are suddenly saying!

You won't believe it

frankv

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#2800364 24-Oct-2021 15:27

arcon:

quickymart:

I've always wondered what the anti-vaxxers "endgame" is? What's their goal, apart from preventing people to get vaccinated? Say they achieve this...then what? Declare victory and everyone goes home to die of coronavirus? Doesn't sound like a "win" to me.

For the hardcore anti-vaxxers mental illness doesn't have an endgame. Its irrational by nature.

Humans are irrational by nature.

Amongst anarchists and the new-right, anti-vax is (I believe) not particularly important in itself, but is a means of focusing dissent against the existing "leftist"/"communist" government. Not unlike the Trumpist "they stole the election" rallies. So the goal is not to prevent people from getting vaccinated, but to create chaos and division in the Western democracies. And I wouldn't be surprised if all of the above was being encouraged by bots run from Russia. Think next-level Cambridge Analytica.

freitasm

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#2800366 24-Oct-2021 15:29

quickymart:

I've always wondered what the anti-vaxxers "endgame" is? What's their goal, apart from preventing people to get vaccinated? Say they achieve this...then what? Declare victory and everyone goes home to die of coronavirus? Doesn't sound like a "win" to me.

A lot of antivax movements are being infiltrated by alt-right, neo-nazis and other hate ideology. They do the same with other conspiracy groups like the anti-5G, etc. It is a very political thing and the antivax people are just being used.

alasta

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#2800368 24-Oct-2021 15:38

freitasm:

quickymart:

I've always wondered what the anti-vaxxers "endgame" is? What's their goal, apart from preventing people to get vaccinated? Say they achieve this...then what? Declare victory and everyone goes home to die of coronavirus? Doesn't sound like a "win" to me.

A lot of antivax movements are being infiltrated by alt-right, neo-nazis and other hate ideology. They do the same with other conspiracy groups like the anti-5G, etc. It is a very political thing and the antivax people are just being used.

Exactly this.

The origin of all of these anti-social ideologies is a very small population of people who are angry and disengaged from mainstream society. It then spreads to a much larger population who are simply naive and don't have the intellectual capacity to process facts and evidence.

gzt

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#2800378 24-Oct-2021 16:06

Oblivian: But what happens when you flip that, to the likes of that cafe up North that was making vaccinated people sit outside. if they turn around and say they're not going to custom anyone who has been..

Imo an idiot with a running mouth who won't be doing it for real anyway. He already shot his business by advertising it as a covid friendly hotspot imo. This kind of thing can be popular on Facebook. In real life not actually.

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