2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2809405 8-Nov-2021 15:32

I don't think there is an end game, I think its just delay, delay, delay and hope that vax rates increase to the point where hospitlisations are minimised.

To me, its getting to the point where daily case numbers are no longer useful, hospitalisations and ICU are probably more relevant, along with hospitalisations and ICU split between vax/non vax. Case numbers are just there to try and scare people now.

I doubt there is a practical solution to the Auckland border conundrum come December, either open it or don't, either way its a political time bomb that the longer you leave unannounced, the larger the explosion is going to be (and there will be an explosion, open or close, no one is going to be happy).

FineWine

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#2809408 8-Nov-2021 15:42

ezbee:

To be fair the Hospital situation has been decades in the making and pretty apolitical.
Fiscally responsible hand wringing, and everyone prefers tax cuts.

Training of trades and nurses seems to have not been a long term priority.
You can buy nurses in, sure, but then you compete with rest of the world.

A review of housing costs in Auckland ( Now all major cities ) compared with income,
and how staff are treated re parking/transport etc. Might blunt interest for those in high demand.

It may not sound like a most liveable country,
to be furthest away from rest of family.
In a pandemic some are going to be wondering if its a short term plan kicked the curb once over.

Yeh the whole 'shovel ready' thing had money sent to many of the wrong places.

NZ has been leaking Nurses and other skills for decades. Some went for their extended OE, for most though it was just for better pay. As a Kiwi living in Australia I qualified and Nursed there for 25yrs. When we returned home in 2014 I got reciprocal registration and nursed for a further 3 yrs before retirement. I was appalled at the nurse wages here. I dropped approx A$45,000/pa as paediatric nurse specialist.

Filipino nurses are some of the best nurses in the world. Their training is excellent but their own countries wages are some of the worlds worst that is why they like to come to NZ & Aus. A lot go via the UK & USA due to reciprocal agreements with these countries so by the time they get here they are good. NZ should be welcoming them with open arms.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

mattwnz

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#2809409 8-Nov-2021 15:44

sen8or:

I don't think there is an end game, I think its just delay, delay, delay and hope that vax rates increase to the point where hospitlisations are minimised.

To me, its getting to the point where daily case numbers are no longer useful, hospitalisations and ICU are probably more relevant, along with hospitalisations and ICU split between vax/non vax. Case numbers are just there to try and scare people now.

I doubt there is a practical solution to the Auckland border conundrum come December, either open it or don't, either way its a political time bomb that the longer you leave unannounced, the larger the explosion is going to be (and there will be an explosion, open or close, no one is going to be happy).

The experts have said that case numbers are very useful, not sure why they wouldn't be considered useful. Infact todays numbers show that there are cases not being detected based on the high % of tests testing positive. So it could be estimated from that how many real cases there are. Hospitalization rates are weeks behind case numbers, because it can take weeks for people after they test positive, to get bad enough to need hospital treatment. It is like a slow train crash, because from the cases today, they can see how many will need hospitalization in several weeks time.

wellygary

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#2809410 8-Nov-2021 15:45

GV27:

Vaccination rates in other parts of the country suggest they're reasonably ambivalent about the prospect of Covid at all.

Unless you are in the Hospo sector, Level 2 isn't much of an inconvenience,.. If regions don't hit 90% we've ben told that the border to Auckland will continue (need traffic light criteria on both sides to remove)

From a purely selfish point of view if you are not vaccinated and your region remains below 90% you continue to kick the can down the road.....

NZ has a pretty good history of trying to "have cake and eat it" .. so this doesn't surprise me in the least

kobiak

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#2809412 8-Nov-2021 15:47

alasta:

People seem much more motivated to get vaccinated when the virus pops up in their community. Perhaps we need a staged relaxing of the Auckland border between now and Christmas in order to create a 'slow leak'.

That way we wouldn't have the virus dramatically bursting out of Auckland a few days before Christmas, with many people across the rest of the country having been complacent up to that point.

Allow double vacced 14-21 days after their second vaccination + maybe negative test to leave AKL and come back :) this would motivate people to get first and second jabs ASAP.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

mattwnz

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#2809413 8-Nov-2021 15:47

alasta:

People seem much more motivated to get vaccinated when the virus pops up in their community. Perhaps we need a staged relaxing of the Auckland border between now and Christmas in order to create a 'slow leak'.

That way we wouldn't have the virus dramatically bursting out of Auckland a few days before Christmas, with many people across the rest of the country having been complacent up to that point.

That would make the job for the government very easy, and we are being conditioned for that with their messaging. But the fact is that the rest of NZ is still largely following the Zero tolerance for covid / elimination approach, until such a time vaccination is high enough. The planned to move to living with covid and relaxing borders next year before this outbreak occurred.

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mattwnz

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#2809415 8-Nov-2021 15:57

kobiak:

alasta:

People seem much more motivated to get vaccinated when the virus pops up in their community. Perhaps we need a staged relaxing of the Auckland border between now and Christmas in order to create a 'slow leak'.

That way we wouldn't have the virus dramatically bursting out of Auckland a few days before Christmas, with many people across the rest of the country having been complacent up to that point.

+1

Allow double vacced 14-21 days after their second vaccination + maybe negative test to leave AKL and come back :) this would motivate people to get first and second jabs ASAP.

The problem is that the 10% of eligble people who won't be vaccinated, many are the most vulnerable that will be worst affected by it.

freitasm

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Geekzone

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#2809419 8-Nov-2021 16:09

"A man charged over Auckland's anti-lockdown protest reportedly has Covid-19. Papatoetoe resident Paul Thompson, aged 57, last week denied failing to comply with the Covid-19 Public Health Response Order by attending the gathering, along with 5000 people, during alert level 3 restrictions. Thompson, a member of Destiny Church, has since tested positive for Covid, Stuff reports."

Covid 19 Delta outbreak: Man charged over Auckland's anti-lockdown protest has Covid-19 - report - NZ Herald

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GV27

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#2809420 8-Nov-2021 16:10

kobiak:

+1

Allow double vacced 14-21 days after their second vaccination + maybe negative test to leave AKL and come back :) this would motivate people to get first and second jabs ASAP.

A negative test pre-xmas isn't going to happen.

kobiak

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#2809421 8-Nov-2021 16:12

mattwnz:

The problem is that the 10% of eligble people who won't be vaccinated, many are the most vulnerable that will be worst affected by it.

Those would be most at risk regardless if they allow double vaxxed Aucklands now or later. So why not open now for smaller proportion of Auckland population?

helping others at evgenyk.nz

kobiak

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#2809423 8-Nov-2021 16:15

GV27:
A negative test pre-xmas isn't going to happen.

Yeah agree. But open borders now for smalle population now, to get people around country more vaxxed.

Allow to leave Auckland on flights or by car only, don't know :)

helping others at evgenyk.nz

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rugrat

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#2809424 8-Nov-2021 16:16

kobiak:

+1

Allow double vacced 14-21 days after their second vaccination + maybe negative test to leave AKL and come back :) this would motivate people to get first and second jabs ASAP.

Need resources to check if people are qualified to leave/come back. With the numbers wanting to temporarily leave Auckland, this looks unworkable.

If hospitals fill up in other parts of country it will effect the vaccinated access to health care as well.

I have no idea of hospital capacity per head of population in other areas compared to Auckland’s.

Christmas is the worse time to have COVID spreading. People won’t be eating with masks on, large family gatherings.

GV27

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#2809427 8-Nov-2021 16:18

PM has announced the date the borders will open for Aucklanders will be known in advance - apparently we'll know that next week.

quickymart

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#2809428 8-Nov-2021 16:20

Still no news on the schools though, I thought that it was "pencilled in" that they would reopen next Monday? Or is that not happening now?

GV27

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#2809434 8-Nov-2021 16:26

Also Auckland will not hit the traffic light system now before 29/11. So another lost month.

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