2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2812903 14-Nov-2021 22:23

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

Some places have been offering vouchers. Such as Fuel and supermarket vouchers etc. There was also a story posted on here recently about someone apparently holding out in the hope of a big carrot.

Thats fine, as long as vaccinated people like me, also participate. Otherwise its like paying criminals not to break the law, and ignoring the MANY of us that did our bit

I agree. To turn it around a bit, it is the unvaccinated blackmailing everyone else. Give me X or I won't get vaccinated....

DS248

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#2812915 15-Nov-2021 00:56

MileHighKiwi:
Good article here about oximeters. I've just purchased one from Granone for $30

https://www.pinnaclepractices.co.nz/news/pulse-oximetry-in-the-community-the-debate/

A couple of academic evaluations of cheap/popular oximeters. Both worth a read if considering getting one.

Lipnick et al (2016), https://www.lifebox.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/The-Accuracy-of-6-Inexpensive-Pulse-Oximeters.pdf

Harskamp et al (2021), medRxiv preprint: https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.03.09.21253181

The best of the cheap models seemed to perform pretty well. None of the models met World Federation of Societies of Anaesthesiologists standards for clinical use. But two of the six low-cost oximeters tested by Lipnick et al met FDA clearance standards. The other four seemed to have serious biases though.

And while none of those tested by Harskamp et al initially met even the FDA standards, four of the ten they studied were within the FDA limits after removing extreme outlier readings (example plot below). Indeed, the hospital grade Philips sensor glove SpO2 monitor they included for comparison performed only slightly better in terms of SpO2-SaO2 bias. The following comment is worth noting though

"From a clinical perspective, we found that the pulse oximeters perform well in ruling out hypoxemia, but are not reliable in detecting manifest hypoxemia. As such, when a pulse oximeter indicates a low SpO2, confirmation is required."

But worth reading the full reports as there are other factors that are relevant.

I ordered three Contec CMS50NA models off ebay on Sat ex China at ~NZ$25 each including postage (two being for other family members). Quoted delivery is "before 9 Dec" (hopefully!).

The CMS50NA appears to be very similar to some of the best performing oximeters in the Harskamp (Contec CMS50D1) and Lipnick (Contec CMS50DL) evaluations.

Plot from Harskamp et al.

DS248

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#2812916 15-Nov-2021 01:07

By way of comparison, the corresponding plot for the hospital grade Philips oximeter tested by Harskamp et al.

Batman

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#2812964 15-Nov-2021 07:30

DS248:
By way of comparison, the corresponding plot for the hospital grade Philips oximeter tested by Harskamp et al.

From my understanding they are all pretty spot on at 95-100. Just put it on many healthy people make sure it says 95-100. So if you are 95-100% and feel fine go back to bed.

If you get lower than desired number or feel not fine seek medical attention. Don't listen to whoever on the end of a phone.

There is no need to know whether a reading of 79% is actually 72% or 84%. To me it's a no brainer. Hence I got a couple of cheapo ones.

GV27

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#2812965 15-Nov-2021 07:32

Border decision today, but announcement won't be until later in the week.

Which I guess we all kind of knew was coming, but I think after this long, there's still a moral imperative to let Aucklanders know what is going on sooner rather than later.

DS248

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#2813034 15-Nov-2021 10:55

Batman:

...

From my understanding they are all pretty spot on at 95-100. Just put it on many healthy people make sure it says 95-100. So if you are 95-100% and feel fine go back to bed.

If you get lower than desired number or feel not fine seek medical attention. Don't listen to whoever on the end of a phone.

There is no need to know whether a reading of 79% is actually 72% or 84%. To me it's a no brainer. Hence I got a couple of cheapo ones.

Not all of them for all people. If you check the data in the plots in Lipnick et al, a couple of the oximeters gave wildly overestimated readings for a few individuals; eg. reading 92 vs actual 80, 98 vs 76, etc (many other similarly overestimated readings for those individuals)

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#2813049 15-Nov-2021 11:04

DS248:

Batman:

...

From my understanding they are all pretty spot on at 95-100. Just put it on many healthy people make sure it says 95-100. So if you are 95-100% and feel fine go back to bed.

If you get lower than desired number or feel not fine seek medical attention. Don't listen to whoever on the end of a phone.

There is no need to know whether a reading of 79% is actually 72% or 84%. To me it's a no brainer. Hence I got a couple of cheapo ones.

Not all of them for all people. If you check the data in the plots in Lipnick et al, a couple of the oximeters gave wildly overestimated readings for a few individuals; eg. reading 92 vs actual 80, 98 vs 76, etc (many other similarly overestimated readings for those individuals)

what you just said is extremely concerning but i can't find where it shows that?

from your second link "conclusion - Direct-to-consumer pulse oximeters do not meet ISO-standards required for FDA-clearance, but can accurately rule out hypoxemia."

from your first link "The magnitude of the oximeter error in all 6 oximeters
tested here was relatively small at saturations >90% and
probably of no clinical significance. However, there were
large and variable errors in performance of pulse oximeters
at lower saturations."

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wellygary

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#2813054 15-Nov-2021 11:09

The magic "Double 90" rates keep slipping for Counties Manukau - now 9 December,

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126816187/covid19-nz-when-will-each-dhb-reach-the-90-per-cent-full-vaccination-target

Oblivian

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#2813065 15-Nov-2021 11:20

wellygary:

The magic "Double 90" rates keep slipping for Counties Manukau - now 9 December,

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126816187/covid19-nz-when-will-each-dhb-reach-the-90-per-cent-full-vaccination-target

Likely the spurring of the PMs morning interviews on a few platforms 'not ruling out' during their consultations/considering localised borders being used to protect lower areas while committing to the christmas goal - not really a thing for that DHB under the current sense. But across the board for the ones with issues getting there.

quickymart

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#2813080 15-Nov-2021 11:56

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2021/11/duncan-garner-says-he-has-covid-19-while-awaiting-test-result.html

I wonder where his boy would have got it from though. I didn't think child-to-adult transmission was a common occurrence?

cruxis

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#2813137 15-Nov-2021 12:02

quickymart:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2021/11/duncan-garner-says-he-has-covid-19-while-awaiting-test-result.html

I wonder where his boy would have got it from though. I didn't think child-to-adult transmission was a common occurrence?

I am interested how he recovers, Physicaly He seems to be in the typical average double vaccinated middle aged pudgy kiwi bloke. Hope he does well.

Oblivian

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#2813149 15-Nov-2021 12:16

Says his child is too young, and support getting jabbed. As you are an idiot if you don't.

It doesn't indicate if that was said because he isn't either and now has regret?

At least not when I read it earlier

Hes had this to say previously. But also thought there should be more options

Let me make it clear I'm a vaxxer and I have no time for the hippies who slip into the slipstream and ride the herd immunity wave.

One of the few anomaly jabbed and sick if he is

FineWine

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#2813155 15-Nov-2021 12:29

Batman:

From my understanding they are all pretty spot on at 95-100. Just put it on many healthy people make sure it says 95-100. So if you are 95-100% and feel fine go back to bed.

If you get lower than desired number or feel not fine seek medical attention. Don't listen to whoever on the end of a phone.

There is no need to know whether a reading of 79% is actually 72% or 84%. To me it's a no brainer. Hence I got a couple of cheapo ones.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post re SpO2 levels the signs of cyanosis (inadequate oxygenation of the blood).

In light-skinned patients, cyanosis presents as a dark bluish tint to the skin and mucous membranes around the mouth, lips & gums. But in dark-skinned people, this may present as grey or whitish tint (not bluish) to the skin and mucous membranes around the mouth, lips & gums.

Also be aware of people who are already O2 compromised due to existing cardiac &/or lung conditions. Their normal O2 requirements may well be lower so therefore their tolerances for less oxygen is more critical.

Remember Oximeters are only an adjunct to observations.

I am an ex smoker, stopped 14yrs ago after 40yrs. At time of smoking, prior to quitting, my SpO2 ave was 94-96%. Now it is 97-98%. Lungs can repair to a certain extent.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

FineWine

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#2813159 15-Nov-2021 12:35

quickymart:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2021/11/duncan-garner-says-he-has-covid-19-while-awaiting-test-result.html

I wonder where his boy would have got it from though. I didn't think child-to-adult transmission was a common occurrence?

It does not matter how young or old your are. If you breath out, you can pass it on. If you breath in, you can catch it.

This is why effective masking is so important.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

GV27

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#2813210 15-Nov-2021 12:40

FineWine:

quickymart:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2021/11/duncan-garner-says-he-has-covid-19-while-awaiting-test-result.html

I wonder where his boy would have got it from though. I didn't think child-to-adult transmission was a common occurrence?

It does not matter how young or old your are. If you breath out, you can pass it on. If you breath in, you can catch it.

This is why effective masking is so important.

Can't see masking within your own home catching on, tbh.

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