2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2813707 16-Nov-2021 09:57

'When push comes to shove' being seen in a physical sense it would appear

Couple of articles on localalised stuff (press) about staff affected by the deadline saying their goodbyes. And a portion of workers turning up on the last day to get their 1st jab in. Been quite the last min motivator

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126993982/covid19-teachers-in-lastminute-vaccine-rush-before-mandate-deadline

GV27

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#2813710 16-Nov-2021 10:01

PolicyGuy:

As to why the government didn't want vaccine passports, that's easy: they are inherently by-design discriminatory and divisive, and contrary to the inclusive 'team of five million' approach.

Keeping your biggest city locked up for months because you're worried about vaccine passports being divisive and discriminatory doesn't hold much water.

Batman

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#2813769 16-Nov-2021 10:06

MileHighKiwi:
Batman:

i don't worry about terminology.

when immunity lapses i take another shot.

that's why i get the flu jab every year. before i did that i had this annual sickness that floored me. (hint - if you don't feel like dying you don't have flu, just a cold). right now the whole house is sick as a dog and i'm fine. i think the rest of the house are going to take the flu jab next year.

Have they got the flu or a really bad cold? And does the flu shot prevent you from getting a cold? My wife has been sick for a few weeks now with a really bad cold, lots of fatigue and slow recovery. I caught it and bounced back after a few days. I have not had the flu shot this year but my wife has, it's the first one I missed in years.

i deduce that because they have been slobbering coughing and sneezing all over me for the last 2 weeks and they feel like dying (covid test all negative) and i'm walking around like superman.

can't think of any other explanation - of course it could be a matter of time ....

freitasm

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#2813771 16-Nov-2021 10:08

GV27:

PolicyGuy:

As to why the government didn't want vaccine passports, that's easy: they are inherently by-design discriminatory and divisive, and contrary to the inclusive 'team of five million' approach.

Keeping your biggest city locked up for months because you're worried about vaccine passports being divisive and discriminatory doesn't hold much water.

I think PolicyGuy is saying that going beyond the whiteboard and planning/developing a covid pass before it was needed would be seen (as it is now anyway) as racially divisive. I think there was no "plan" to lockdown Auckland to avoid creating the pass, more like because the pass wasn't created earlier the lockdown had to be enforced - which worked well a year before.

Regardless of the pass people already talk about the vaccine being racially divisive anyway.

In any case, the pass is almost here. But people who did not get the vaccine so far should really get wth the programme.

DS248

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#2813773 16-Nov-2021 10:15

hairy1:

Yes. Here: https://covid19map.co.nz/vaccination-rates/suburb/

Interesting. Definitely a distinct socioeconomic bias.

Edit: reduced image size!

shk292

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#2813774 16-Nov-2021 10:18

Oblivian:

'When push comes to shove' being seen in a physical sense it would appear

Couple of articles on localalised stuff (press) about staff affected by the deadline saying their goodbyes. And a portion of workers turning up on the last day to get their 1st jab in. Been quite the last min motivator

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126993982/covid19-teachers-in-lastminute-vaccine-rush-before-mandate-deadline

I've always held the view that when the proverbial rubber hits the road and people move from a well-paid job to unemployment benefit, we might see some of the "hesitation" disappear. That in itself is good enough reason for mandates.

This quote from the story linked above just amazes me: "Wright said he was only getting his first vaccine because McCall was.

“I am not nervous about getting it. I don’t think people should be forced to get it.”"

So if he's not nervous about getting it, and he's happy to get it when his friend does, why on earth didn't he get it 3 months ago? It's idiots like this that are holding the country back

tdgeek

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#2813775 16-Nov-2021 10:22

sbiddle:

There has been a lot of confusion from people over the terms 3rd jab and booster as they are not one and the same.. But they are one and the same. The difference comes down to medical terminology.

Tks for that, appreciated. Why is the booster for 18+ and not 12+?

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DS248

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#2813786 16-Nov-2021 10:54

tdgeek:

sbiddle:

There has been a lot of confusion from people over the terms 3rd jab and booster as they are not one and the same.. But they are one and the same. The difference comes down to medical terminology.

Tks for that, appreciated. Why is the booster for 18+ and not 12+?

Probably because the risk for a double jabbed child is already extremely low, even after several months. Plus, 12-17 year olds in NZ have only recently been vaccinated so any boosters would be well down the track, by which time there will possibly be other/better options?

See Israeli data below. Zero serious illness cases in double-dosed under 20 year olds in this sample

(Oops, spelling error corrected)

tdgeek

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#2813791 16-Nov-2021 11:16

Neighbourly thing popped up re anti vaxxers (the person discouraging anti-vaxxers) Then... a number of replies who are anti vax including one who is not anti-vax but supplies all the anti vax arguments. Looks like they are everywhere. If thats the case, call time once the last hesitants are pushed to line up and leave the rest to it

Buster

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#2813792 16-Nov-2021 11:18

PolicyGuy:Until recently, it had been the government's hope and expectation that we would not need or use 'vaccine passports' in NZ.
In that situation, it would have been very unwise for MoH personnel to go any further than whiteboard-based contingency planning as they could be portrayed as working against expressed government policy, which is a Major No-No in the Public Service.

As to why the government didn't want vaccine passports, that's easy: they are inherently by-design discriminatory and divisive, and contrary to the inclusive 'team of five million' approach.
Also, a vaccine passport system will effectively discriminate against the socially dislocated, the rural isolated and the poor, further exacerbating their disconnection from mainstream society. The fact that these disadvantaged groups will disproportionately include Maori and Pacific Island New Zealanders only makes it worse.

Then you add on top of that that the MoH is genuinely and sincerely organisationally focused on protection of personal information, promotion of individual personal agency in health matters and conducting their business in a manner which fully respects the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, and you make the whole business of creating a Vaccine Passport system much more difficult and technically challenging.
MoH are not a border control agency and this kind of stuff is absolutely not in their organisational DNA

What a relief. No hysteria, just someone calmly talking sense.

kyhwana2

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#2813798 16-Nov-2021 11:28

shk292:

I've always held the view that when the proverbial rubber hits the road and people move from a well-paid job to unemployment benefit, we might see some of the "hesitation" disappear. That in itself is good enough reason for mandates.

This quote from the story linked above just amazes me: "Wright said he was only getting his first vaccine because McCall was.

“I am not nervous about getting it. I don’t think people should be forced to get it.”"

So if he's not nervous about getting it, and he's happy to get it when his friend does, why on earth didn't he get it 3 months ago? It's idiots like this that are holding the country back

People aren't being forced to get it, they have a choice. The consequence for some people that choose not to get it is that they can't continue to work at their existing job.

wellygary

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#2813806 16-Nov-2021 11:45

tdgeek:

sbiddle:

There has been a lot of confusion from people over the terms 3rd jab and booster as they are not one and the same.. But they are one and the same. The difference comes down to medical terminology.

Tks for that, appreciated. Why is the booster for 18+ and not 12+?

I'm guessing it ultimately will be, but there is no need until at least February ( 12+ only got approved mid August)

The current boosters groups will be those vaxxed from the border and health work forces as part of initial 1.5 million dose roll out that started in Feb/March

Batman

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#2813808 16-Nov-2021 11:48

kyhwana2:

People aren't being forced to get it, they have a choice. The consequence for some people that choose not to get it is that they can't continue to work at their existing job.

while those vaccinated will take on their workload and be taxed to pay for the wages of the unvaccinated who no longer have to work

freitasm

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#2813810 16-Nov-2021 11:56

tdgeek:

Then... a number of replies who are anti vax including one who is not anti-vax but supplies all the anti vax arguments.

If someone says "I am not anti-vax but" and then spouts a torrent of anti-vax arguments, then the person is anti-vax.

JPNZ

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#2813850 16-Nov-2021 13:26

From todays breifing:

"There are 222 new community cases today. Of these, 197 are in Auckland, Waikato (20), Northland (1), Wairarapa (2), Lakes (2).

The Ministry of Health has reported a Covid-19-related death of a patient at Auckland City Hospital. The patient, who was in their late-70s, was admitted to hospital on November 11, and subsequently tested positive.

There were 21,442 first and second vaccine doses administered yesterday, made up of 7,764 first doses and 13,678 second doses. To date, 90% of New Zealanders have had their first dose and 81% are fully vaccinated."

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