2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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366 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2816234 20-Nov-2021 18:34

Handle9: In every country the vast majority of COVID positive people isolate at home. In every country COVID some COVID positive people die at home.

This is far from unique to NZ.

Correct. However It is unique to NZ in terms of this being a new phase for us in our pandemic experience. We have not for 100 years had a dying and recovering at home strategy on a population sized scale.

As such it is a radical shift, we are joining the rest of the world.

The main point is our health infrastructure that dictates the degree of risk, the ability to triage, and the options for people in a large wave, match Mexico.

I am guessing that if the average Kiwi got Covid in Mexico, that they would be a bit stressed out about the health care systems capacity there. We have ignored the reality of ours, now we are living it, which is why we didn't have a freedom day at 80% vaccinated. Second worst healthcare in the OECD in terms of resourcing will cause deaths on a different scale to other countries if we had of gotten it wrong.

Also our health stats as a society are crap for a developed country. Lots of compounding problems led to our somewhat unique way of managing Covid and will dictate what happens in future.

I wonder what our Oxygen capacity is like. So critical in moderate to severe covid cases, certainly the one intervention that has saved the most lives in hospitals, you won't get an Oxygen cylinder at home readily if there is a shortage like India. However we have this great vaccine roll out so we are looking to have dodged a bullet for the most part.

Just keep swimming...

tdgeek

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#2816235 20-Nov-2021 18:45

Sup:

We have ignored the reality of ours, now we are living it, which is why we didn't have a freedom day at 80% vaccinated.

Our health system, being a relatively poor country is what it is. No one politically has moved it up to a position where we have excellent additional capacity as that costs to have idle capacity. So we have capacity based on near 100% usage. Although I had a procedure last year that was non elective but became elective, so maybe its not that bad? In any case, vaccines will send most people home and most people that could have used a hospital bed, will go home. The issue then is how many beds will be used by anti vaxxers instead of people with real needs, Covid or otherwise. The Traffic Light System will be massaged to keeps beds in check

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2816236 20-Nov-2021 18:58

tdgeek:

Sup:

We have ignored the reality of ours, now we are living it, which is why we didn't have a freedom day at 80% vaccinated.

Our health system, being a relatively poor country is what it is. No one politically has moved it up to a position where we have excellent additional capacity as that costs to have idle capacity. So we have capacity based on near 100% usage. Although I had a procedure last year that was non elective but became elective, so maybe its not that bad? In any case, vaccines will send most people home and most people that could have used a hospital bed, will go home. The issue then is how many beds will be used by anti vaxxers instead of people with real needs, Covid or otherwise. The Traffic Light System will be massaged to keeps beds in check

Agree with all of that. My sense is, that by having an in home plan, the system will never crash, because those cases will be gate kept in the community and will either pull through or not. If in home deaths spiked, the Govt will just say we have formed a Covid mobile care team who are delivering oxygen etc to households and we are doing X, Y and Z....we are doing the best we can for everybody...

I do not expect any of this to come to fruition, it is just a risk that exists, which our excellent health advisory have think tanked their way around brilliantly.

Also, I said at the start of this pandemic that when a vaccine is found, New Zealandder's will take it up in the high ninety percentile, clearly this has been severely hampered now by social media and sinister World leaders who fed the pandemc with their games and miss information.

However, I still believe the population will achieve the high nineties, but to get there, we will need for people to see first hand some of the horrors they have been sheltered from.

It could take years, but a lot of resistant people will get vaccinated when they realize, that they have caught Covid more than once, and that eventually it might do them in....or they get sick of being restricted by their vaccine status. It is one thing to oppose it now...but after five years of this stuff?

Just keep swimming...

Handle9

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#2816287 20-Nov-2021 19:23

tdgeek:
Sup:

We have ignored the reality of ours, now we are living it, which is why we didn't have a freedom day at 80% vaccinated.

Our health system, being a relatively poor country is what it is. No one politically has moved it up to a position where we have excellent additional capacity as that costs to have idle capacity. So we have capacity based on near 100% usage. Although I had a procedure last year that was non elective but became elective, so maybe its not that bad? In any case, vaccines will send most people home and most people that could have used a hospital bed, will go home. The issue then is how many beds will be used by anti vaxxers instead of people with real needs, Covid or otherwise. The Traffic Light System will be massaged to keeps beds in check

NZ is a wealthy country by any objective measure.

Sup

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Ultimate Geek
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#2816292 20-Nov-2021 20:00

We need to be prepared to spend the money to be ready for the next one, this thing is a warm up. So far our country has done it well on the whole, some other countries not so much.

Just keep swimming...

Batman

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#2816302 20-Nov-2021 21:49

unless you're Africa ... https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/africa-avoids-covid-disaster-scientists-are-mystified-and-wary/GW6C434H326YUJ6EMCCPIAMUGM/

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quickymart

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#2816314 20-Nov-2021 22:10

I see Brian Tamaki had (yet another) pointless protest today. Do his supporters seriously have nothing else to do with their lives? Too much time on their hands? Do they even have jobs?

I think the long arm of the law needs to come down on his crap, seriously, the guy is getting to be a joke with protest after protest, and I see it doing little to convince anyone or change their way of thinking, outside of his hardcore band of followers.

Sup

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Ultimate Geek
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#2816317 20-Nov-2021 22:24

quickymart:

I see Brian Tamaki had (yet another) pointless protest today. Do his supporters seriously have nothing else to do with their lives? Too much time on their hands? Do they even have jobs?

I think the long arm of the law needs to come down on his crap, seriously, the guy is getting to be a joke with protest after protest, and I see it doing little to convince anyone or change their way of thinking, outside of his hardcore band of followers.

He prefers people with jobs for his revenue churning cult. I have worked with a few of them, good people, lost though, totally sucked in by his particular personality disorder.....rhymes with Cycle path.

Be interested to see what the Judge decides, despite what his Lawyer says, his lawyer would be only to happy to earn off what will likely be a long and protracted legal battle....which Brian will fund from his Trump playbook MAGA style legal funds.

I hope the police lay charges to test the legality of his actions in terms of the orders.

Just keep swimming...

quickymart

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#2816371 20-Nov-2021 23:23

I haven't been following his protests apart from little bits I've seen in the news, but are they well-attended? Is the attendance growing or dropping off? I had a feeling today didn't see many people show up but I could be wrong on that one.

tdgeek

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#2816381 21-Nov-2021 07:21

Handle9:

NZ is a wealthy country by any objective measure.

First world country yes, but we have a health system that is apparently well down OECD, no source of natural resources, low wage economy, everyone whines about taxes, and living over the ditch was the way out for many. Id class a wealthy country as one that provides a good infrastructure and a good standard of living. We always live on the edge of infrastructure, not even that actually.

tdgeek

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#2816385 21-Nov-2021 07:26

Sup:

Also, I said at the start of this pandemic that when a vaccine is found, New Zealandder's will take it up in the high ninety percentile, clearly this has been severely hampered now by social media and sinister World leaders who fed the pandemc with their games and miss information.

However, I still believe the population will achieve the high nineties, but to get there, we will need for people to see first hand some of the horrors they have been sheltered from.

It could take years, but a lot of resistant people will get vaccinated when they realize, that they have caught Covid more than once, and that eventually it might do them in....or they get sick of being restricted by their vaccine status. It is one thing to oppose it now...but after five years of this stuff?

I'd say we would top out at 95% max, the rest are anti vaxxers. Im not sure how immunity is after Covid, as compared to being vaccinated, but the anti vaxxers will get natural immunity, and yes, many will flock to the jab as their cool, trendy, oppositional anti vax stance is less important than an afternoon at a beer garden.

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cshwone

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#2816386 21-Nov-2021 07:39

The assumption in the posts above about in home care seems to be that once you have been triaged at first assessment for in home that is where you stay until you recover or die.

Surely that is not the end of the story?

I know that personally if I had the virus and was at home as soon as I felt life threatened, had a bad oximeter reading etc I would be straight to the ED.

Batman

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#2816387 21-Nov-2021 07:46

the beginning of the end for MIQ? https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/if-aucklanders-can-holiday-here-why-not-aussies-boult

i propose no MIQ if 2+ pfizer/moderna with 6 mths

MikeB4

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#2816388 21-Nov-2021 07:49

cshwone:

The assumption in the posts above about in home care seems to be that once you have been triaged at first assessment for in home that is where you stay until you recover or die.

Surely that is not the end of the story?

I know that personally if I had the virus and was at home as soon as I felt life threatened, had a bad oximeter reading etc I would be straight to the ED.

It's not the full story. Apart from a very few professionals (noted on their profile) the vast majority posting here know jack about it. There is a lot of apparent scare mongering. New Zealand does not condemn people to die alone at home.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2816389 21-Nov-2021 07:56

cshwone:

The assumption in the posts above about in home care seems to be that once you have been triaged at first assessment for in home that is where you stay until you recover or die.

Surely that is not the end of the story?

I know that personally if I had the virus and was at home as soon as I felt life threatened, had a bad oximeter reading etc I would be straight to the ED.

AFAIK the premise was that as most have mildish symptoms there is no point using up MIQ or beds, keep them for serious cases and other non Covid-19 needs. Vaccinations will add a huge boost to needing less beds.

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