2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2831133 13-Dec-2021 07:57

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Things need to be dialed down in Aotearoa. The stress in and anxiety in the country is impacting in a dangerous way. Our society is turning angry. When under stress the frontal lobes of the human brain go to sleep and the more primitive lobes eg fight or flight dominate and dominate our responses and behaviour. This is evident in pro and anti vaccination groups.

We are seeing a disturbing increase of anger, abuse and in some cases violence from both sides. There is also a disturbing rise in xenophobia and racism and can may lead to some very ugly outcomes.

The rise in protests and acts of protest are a symptom of this. Social media, forums and traditional news media are fuelling this by triggering the fight or flight etc reactions. Aoteoroa was a nation that believed and felt proud of a belief we were tolerant and inclusive however it took just a few months to change that and our intolerance to come forth.

I am not sure it's evident in the pro-vaccination group. These are not the ones staging protests, marching around, being nasty to people following the rules.

The rules were created to prevent the many deaths happening elsewhere to happen here.

We were very good at managing COVID-19. We didn't have thousands of deaths, no overuse of ICU, etc.

Anyone complaining about government overreach, not commending the results, not accepting that we had fewer deaths than many other places are just being dicks at this point.

You can rationalise all you want about the anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers but they are still acting like dicks.

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MikeB4

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#2831144 13-Dec-2021 08:15

With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I am NOT supporting an anti vaccination position at all. I am three times vaccinated. I am trying to highlight a disturbing dangerous trend in Aotearoa. If we as a society do not recongnise and address it where will we be on the other side of the pandemic and how damaged will our society be. It could be said that we have two pandemics in Aotearoa, Covid 19 and deteriorating mental health crisis. These two pandemics are linked.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

freitasm

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#2831149 13-Dec-2021 08:20

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With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I am NOT supporting an anti vaccination position at all. I am three times vaccinated. I am trying to highlight a disturbing dangerous trend in Aotearoa. If we as a society do not recongnise and address it where will we be on the other side of the pandemic and how damaged will our society be. It could be said that we have two pandemics in Aotearoa, Covid 19 and deteriorating mental health crisis. These two pandemics are linked.

With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I did not say you are an anti-vaxxer. I actually rewrote the last sentence before posting to try and make it clear that I am referring to a third party and not you and me. I've seen from the previous page you were taking it personally.

So, again, do not make it personal.

I am not convinced the anti-vaxxer and covid-denier population is not being manipulated by scammers and individuals with self-interest above of those of the general population. True anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers are just being the useful idiots and paws in these scammers' game.

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#2831150 13-Dec-2021 08:22

SARS-CoV-2 inhibits induction of the MHC class I pathway by targeting the STAT1-IRF1-NLRC5 axis | Nature Communications

The MHC class I-mediated antigen presentation pathway plays a critical role in antiviral immunity. Here we show that the MHC class I pathway is targeted by SARS-CoV-2. Analysis of the gene expression profile from COVID-19 patients as well as SARS-CoV-2 infected epithelial cell lines reveals that the induction of the MHC class I pathway is inhibited by SARS-CoV-2 infection. We show that NLRC5, an MHC class I transactivator, is suppressed both transcriptionally and functionally by the SARS-CoV-2 ORF6 protein, providing a mechanistic link. SARS-CoV-2 ORF6 hampers type II interferon-mediated STAT1 signaling, resulting in diminished upregulation of NLRC5 and IRF1 gene expression. Moreover, SARS-CoV-2 ORF6 inhibits NLRC5 function via blocking karyopherin complex-dependent nuclear import of NLRC5. Collectively, our study uncovers an immune evasion mechanism of SARS-CoV-2 that targets the function of key MHC class I transcriptional regulators, STAT1-IRF1-NLRC5.

In other words, scientists discovered the SARS-CoV-2 ORF6 protein suppresses NLRC5, preventing a timely response to the infection.

More here COVID-19 Breakthrough: Scientists Discover How the SARS-CoV-2 Virus Evades Our Immune System (scitechdaily.com)

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quickymart

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#2831161 13-Dec-2021 08:31

Batman:

i hope you can see this. and then try and get her out of the cult. you are feeding her cult rituals by trying to find alternate vaccines for her. next it will be something else, and something else, etc and it will never stop.

You're preaching to converted when you tell me, I think she should just go ahead and get the vaccine. It's this other relative(the former chemist) who's going around spreading all the anti-mRNA stuff.

He's a really nice guy, friendly and approachable and easy to talk to, don't get me wrong, but he's not a doctor - however as he ran the chemist for so many years and reads a lot of medical journals anyone who he speaks to in my family just listens to him as he simply must know what he's talking about.

My relative who has not got the vaccine became quite defensive when I tried to explain stuff to her, so I just shut down and haven't spoken to her since.

MikeB4

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#2831163 13-Dec-2021 08:34

When people are under stress and anxiety and add to this the feeling of being out of control. The pandemic thrust upon our society many changes and people look for something they can control. Some do gardening, some stocked up on flour and toilet paper. Some not all use the decision not to vaccinate as a tool to taking back some control in their lives. It's a complex psychological process that frankly my son left me with a headache.

Now there are anti-vaxxers that are sociopaths and those who are politically motivated and those are NOT the ones I am referring to and I believe that many of these scumbags are vaccinated. They have grabbed an opportunity and manipulating a situation.

@freitasm I am not intending to make this personal. That is not my attention. and I truly apologise that I came across like that. I am very concerned about the many red flags concerning our society in aotearoa.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Technofreak

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#2831195 13-Dec-2021 09:15

freitasm:

:

With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I am NOT supporting an anti vaccination position at all. I am three times vaccinated. I am trying to highlight a disturbing dangerous trend in Aotearoa. If we as a society do not recongnise and address it where will we be on the other side of the pandemic and how damaged will our society be. It could be said that we have two pandemics in Aotearoa, Covid 19 and deteriorating mental health crisis. These two pandemics are linked.

With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I did not say you are an anti-vaxxer. I actually rewrote the last sentence before posting to try and make it clear that I am referring to a third party and not you and me. I've seen from the previous page you were taking it personally.

So, again, do not make it personal.

I am not convinced the anti-vaxxer and covid-denier population is not being manipulated by scammers and individuals with self-interest above of those of the general population. True anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers are just being the useful idiots and paws in these scammers' game.

Hi Mauricio,

I think you have completely missed MikeB4's point. There is some serious division with this pandemic and that needs to be recognised. Yes, it is self inflicted, but that doesn't mean it's not real and shouldn't be addressed.

I think you called them dicks in one of your posts. I would agree, but from their perspective we are the dicks and the ones who have been fed a line of BS. I have no doubt that a lot of them have been manipulated by parties with other agendas.

When you have very close family members who are scared witless that one of their loved ones who has been vaccinated will die because of being vaccinated and firmly believe from their "research" that the vaccines are so bad then I think you may understand where MikeB4 is coming from.

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freitasm

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#2831197 13-Dec-2021 09:16

Technofreak:

freitasm:

:

With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I am NOT supporting an anti vaccination position at all. I am three times vaccinated. I am trying to highlight a disturbing dangerous trend in Aotearoa. If we as a society do not recongnise and address it where will we be on the other side of the pandemic and how damaged will our society be. It could be said that we have two pandemics in Aotearoa, Covid 19 and deteriorating mental health crisis. These two pandemics are linked.

With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I did not say you are an anti-vaxxer. I actually rewrote the last sentence before posting to try and make it clear that I am referring to a third party and not you and me. I've seen from the previous page you were taking it personally.

So, again, do not make it personal.

I am not convinced the anti-vaxxer and covid-denier population is not being manipulated by scammers and individuals with self-interest above of those of the general population. True anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers are just being the useful idiots and paws in these scammers' game.

Hi Mauricio,

I think you have completely missed MikeB4's point. There is some serious division with this pandemic and that needs to be recognised. Yes, it is self inflicted, but that doesn't mean it's not real and shouldn't be addressed.

I think you called them dicks in one of your posts. I would agree, but from their perspective we are the dicks and the ones who have been fed a line of BS. I have no doubt that a lot of them have been manipulated by parties with other agendas.

When you have very close family members who are scared witless that one of their loved ones who has been vaccinated will die because of being vaccinated and firmly believe from their "research" that the vaccines are so bad then I think you may understand where MikeB4 is coming from.

No, I did not miss the point. I was not addressing that point. I was addressing the point where Mikeb4 seemed to be under impression I bundled his opinions with those of anti-vaxxers - his first paragraph.

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MikeB4

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#2831208 13-Dec-2021 09:36

Technofreak:

Hi Mauricio,

I think you have completely missed MikeB4's point. There is some serious division with this pandemic and that needs to be recognised. Yes, it is self inflicted, but that doesn't mean it's not real and shouldn't be addressed.

I think you called them dicks in one of your posts. I would agree, but from their perspective we are the dicks and the ones who have been fed a line of BS. I have no doubt that a lot of them have been manipulated by parties with other agendas.

When you have very close family members who are scared witless that one of their loved ones who has been vaccinated will die because of being vaccinated and firmly believe from their "research" that the vaccines are so bad then I think you may understand where MikeB4 is coming from.

In some ways the divisions that are developing in Aotearoa mirror the treatment of the Gay community when Aids first appeared. The anger mirrors that of the anti springbok tour, anti nuclear, climate change and is showing again in the Groundswell protests.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

kyhwana2

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#2831224 13-Dec-2021 10:04

Technofreak:

freitasm:

With all due respect you appear to have missed my point. I did not say you are an anti-vaxxer. I actually rewrote the last sentence before posting to try and make it clear that I am referring to a third party and not you and me. I've seen from the previous page you were taking it personally.

So, again, do not make it personal.

I am not convinced the anti-vaxxer and covid-denier population is not being manipulated by scammers and individuals with self-interest above of those of the general population. True anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers are just being the useful idiots and paws in these scammers' game.

Hi Mauricio,

I think you have completely missed MikeB4's point. There is some serious division with this pandemic and that needs to be recognised. Yes, it is self inflicted, but that doesn't mean it's not real and shouldn't be addressed.

I think you called them dicks in one of your posts. I would agree, but from their perspective we are the dicks and the ones who have been fed a line of BS. I have no doubt that a lot of them have been manipulated by parties with other agendas.

When you have very close family members who are scared witless that one of their loved ones who has been vaccinated will die because of being vaccinated and firmly believe from their "research" that the vaccines are so bad then I think you may understand where MikeB4 is coming from.

No, you're missing the point that the anti-vaxxers are the ones that are sowing division. Everyone else getting vaccinated are doing it for public health, as well as their own.

MikeB4

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#2831237 13-Dec-2021 10:26

I feel for this nurse and every other professional that is being threatened. It is wrong, just wrong. This is an example of what I have, (probably badly, I am not an articulate person) been trying say. It is time to de-escalate before people get really hurt.

'Are you going to kill my child?' Vaccinator makes emotional plea after receiving threat | Stuff.co.nz

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Batman

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#2831254 13-Dec-2021 10:45

MikeB4:

In some ways the divisions that are developing in Aotearoa mirror the treatment of the Gay community when Aids first appeared. The anger mirrors that of the anti springbok tour, anti nuclear, climate change and is showing again in the Groundswell protests.

I've spoken to a lot people and many think this division will have to end at some point and I think the govt knows it.

But that point in time may be soon, or it may be a while yet.

As I've said, govt is trying to protect the vulnerable, trying to keep our underresourced hospitals from collapsing, and in case people didn't realise, trying to protect unvaccinated!

Technofreak

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#2831265 13-Dec-2021 10:54

kyhwana2:

No, you're missing the point that the anti-vaxxers are the ones that are sowing division. Everyone else getting vaccinated are doing it for public health, as well as their own.

I'm not missing the point at all. What some people are failing to understand is how we see the pandemic and the use of vaccines isn't how some of the anti vaxxers see the pandemic and the vaccines. Using our logic to explain and rationalise with them does not work.

While we see them as being devisive by not having the vaccine they see the actions like vaccine mandates (things we support) as being devisive.

Actions like mandates and restrictions for the unvaxxed are further entrenching the divisions. From our perspective it is self inflicted but from their perspective it is out right punitive. There is a siege mentality with a lot of these people. The hard we try to push/encourage the harder they push back.

The rifts and scars within families and communities will extend way way past the end of the pandemic and while I agree with the sentiments of your post, expressing those sentiments to many of the people I know just makes things a whole lot worse by several magnitudes.

If you haven't seen the sort of thing I'm talking about you're either very lucky or blind to what is happening.

I don't know what the answer is but we need to find a way to bridge the gap somehow.

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trig42

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#2831266 13-Dec-2021 10:56

Auckland Orange this week?

I don't think so unfortunately, even though by their own measures, Auckland should move to Orange (Health System not in danger of being overwhelmed).

I think there will be more anger after the 4pm presser today, and I hope cabinet have got their finger on that pulse when they are making that decision.

My opinion: Aucklanders are coming on Wednesday New Zealand, engines are started and we're moving into the starting blocks. What difference does it make if we are at Orange at the same time? It may stop a few Auckland business dieing over the christmas break. It may ease the pressure in the Auckland pressure cooker. I just know the line will be 'We've always taken the cautious, one-change-at-a-time approach. Thanks for all you hard works Auckland, but nah'

MikeB4

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#2831272 13-Dec-2021 11:01

I wanted to relay why some and I mean those who are hesitant or scared to take the vaccine. This may get me hit with the ban hammer, I hope not, I want to share a personal experience.

At the beginning of this year in an attempt to get my medical condition under control a decision was made to try a new “experimental” regime to arrest the progression. At first this successful but unfortunately a few months back it all went very bad. The drug treatment being used created a series of very bad side effects that came very close to ending my life. My kidneys came close to shutting down, my blood pressure rose rapidly, and my heart went into arrhythmia. Thankfully it had a good outcome in the end even though the fight is not over yet.

Now this is not a vaccine related incident but I share this to give an incite as to why some folks are hesitant about getting an obviously life saving vaccination. I was initially very scared of getting my first vaccine shot but with the support of my medical people and my son I overcame the anxiety and panic attacks and got vaccinated, three times now and look forward to the booster in 2022.

I am again not talking about the scumbag anti vax manipulators and profit makers here I am relating what maybe the situation with your neighbour colleague or stranger. This took a lot of soul searching, trepidation and tears to try and write this. All I ask is you read it and not judge.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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