2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 2162 | 2163 | 2164 | 2165 | 2166 | 2167 | 2168 | 2169 | 2170 | 2171 | 2172 | ... | 2429

20522 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4798

#2836465 21-Dec-2021 17:18

mattwnz:

Scott3:

MIQ room release postponed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-mbie-delays-miq-room-release-due-to-omicron/SADEH4DJ2GQ5AWEHIA2J2JKMOU/

Reason given is longer average stays impacting on capacity (I think everybody on the same flight, or MIQ floor as an omicron case does the entire 10 days in MIQ, rather than the normal 7 in miq, then three of self isolation.

They were going to have to do something. I wonder if they will go back to 14 days MIQ as we can't afford to let Omicron in until people have their boosters.

I see they are increasing MIQ stays to 10 days which is better in order to reduce the risk.

Scott3

4177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2990

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836466 21-Dec-2021 17:23

Batman:
Scott3:

Looking increasingly clear that NZ cannot replicate the NSW approach to Omicron. It's highly contagious nature seems to outweigh it being potentially milder in terms of hospital load.

If. And a big if. If this becomes a known way out of the pandemic. And your population is freshly vaccinated. And you are the govt. Would you do it.

Unless we are willing to stop all international arrivals, we don't really have a choice. Omicron is so contagious a leak through our MIQ system is likely in the next few weeks.

It's pretty scary , cos as I am quoted saying above, every indication is that it will dramatically impact our hospital system. - and there is not yet evidence that is it pandemic ending.

But to answer the question if I was the government, yeah I would let it rip. Of course that would come at a cost, but the status quo is also costly for NZ. Currently we are bearing the costs of both covid-19 in the community, and a closed border, the worst of both worlds...

But If I was in power I would be really draconian with my approach:

MIQ stays up to 14 days, increased frequency of staff testing, No new allocations other than humanitarian.
Opening date set to say 14th feb. No MIQ or other covid related border restrictions after that date.
Introduce Mandatory vaccination for all (other than medically exempt)
- Say that I am unwilling and find it unethical to allow venerable and misinformation impacted communities (incl maori) to fall through the cracks and carry a disproportionate burden of covid-19.
- Require proof of ID at vaccination - Have a system in place to establish the identity of those who have no ID. - Perhaps take the opportunity to (using the drivers licence or passport system) to set up a process where those who have neither can be government issued a free photo ID.
- Introduce a new tax rate (say 55% flat) for those who have not provided evidence of current vaccination (incl for eligible kids). Have IRD keep the money in a pool for release as a lump sum when the person is vaccinated.
- All those who are arrested, or are held by corrections to be vaccinated by force.
- Vaccine pass system removed. No further workplace mandates. (let the government be the bad cop, and get rid of all this devicive stuff around vaccination)
- Current vaccine to be: 1st dose within 4 weeks of eligibility, 2nd dose within 8 weeks of that, 1st booster within 7 months of that (or third primary if taken).
Harsh penalties for spreading vaccine or covid-19 mis-information
Shut down platforms (facebook?) who do not effectively moderate mis-infomation.
Lots of promotion of the impacts of covid-19 - genuine sick people who are willing to say on a TV add that they regret not getting the vaccine.
Lots of promotion of opening day, and how it is going to be great to be able to restart the tourism industry (excl offshore flagged cruise ships)
Lots of promotion of "omicron is coming" - High chance that everybody is going to get the virus - we strongly recommend vaccination.

The obvious flaws in my plan are:

I would not make it through the next election.
We could still end up with overloaded hospitals.
The date of reopening is a hard one - needs to be early as possible so we are still in summer, but we are running out of time to prepare, boost etc.
Our highly Pfizer vaccinated population could be prime for a vaccine resistant mutation to come to the fore.

ezbee

2662 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3110

#2836478 21-Dec-2021 19:02

USA makes a ban list... How the mighty, 4 states under 50%, 27 under 60% vaxed.

Israel bans travel to US amid omicron concerns
As the omicron coronavirus variant takes hold across the world, Israel has placed a ban on all travel to the United States. Germany has also been added to the "no-fly" list.
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-israel-bans-travel-to-us-amid-omicron-concerns/a-60191176

But I'm not sure Russia that beat the world to release first vaccine has anything to celebrate.
Only 43% vax.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836482 21-Dec-2021 19:13

Sup:

The next thing that the odious fossil fuel toad will do...is to use mixed messaging "I got the shot...it was a beautiful shot...but you don't have to get it....It is about your rights...you could try it...I dunno...it might be alright" - Donald Trump 2021

Or it will be bigly good. He can't talk properly so "bigly" is actually "big league"

Don't discriminate against toads!

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836483 21-Dec-2021 19:17

cokemaster: Waiting till Jan 2022 is a silly decision in my opinion. We want vaccine boosters in arms sooner rather than later, providing that it’s safe.

I rang up the vaccine line - they’re suggesting mid Jan. Local chemist has been instructed to wait till Jan 1st.

I ageee

One factor, is that "IF" there is no Covid here (sorry Steve) it makes sense to hold off. As if it arrives in March and ive been boosted in Feb, all good. But lets common sense prevail, get boosted ASAP

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836484 21-Dec-2021 19:20

mattwnz:

I think he has always been against the lockdowns which states imposed, yet he will probably take all the credit for them saving lives..

Guessing he hasn't been watching what is happening in UK. They think Dec 28 could be the lockdown day for the UK.

Yep, its a sad state of affairs. If I was a ruling Monarch, its easy to play the card or blame the card. But the game here are lives not castles.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836485 21-Dec-2021 19:22

cshwone:

cokemaster: I was in one of the earlier groups. By kicking it out, it means that I’m going to get my booster later compared to if they didn’t change the booster rules.

Maybe it's just me but I don't really understand what you are saying. At the moment boosters are at 6 months which you can still get. So I cannot see how a change to 4 months in January is going to delay you getting the booster if you are due soon.

I think he means delay the booster till when Covid is at the front door. If you find its down the street (figurativey) then get the boost, maximise its effect?

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836486 21-Dec-2021 19:24

cokemaster: So yesterday, I could book an appointment in early January under the 6 month rules.

When I’ve gone online today, all appointments have been removed. When I’ve called the 0800 number, I’ve been told that all booster shots must be booked and that I can only schedule my booking for mid-late January which is even later than what I could have booked under the 6 month regime.

I read its walk in? Maybe your doctor cam tale care of it?

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836489 21-Dec-2021 19:29

Scott3:

Today's press conference as already disused:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8boMQPJFOQ

Largely as expected:

Kick the can down the road regarding MIQ free arrival from aussie
Slight tighting of MIQ (change from 7MIQ + 3home) to 10 days MIQ.
Plan to keep Omiricon out "as long as we can", but not resorting to extreme measures like a block on all arrivals, meaning a leak is expected.
Plan to use "Red" in the protection framework, rather than alert levels to manage Omicron in the community, unless it gets too badly out of hand.
Kiddy (5 - 11) vaccines from 17 Jan. Getting enough doses to not need a priory system to allocate them, but there is going to be a big, early push to resource those in low vaccination / high hesitancy areas to get good reliable information from trusted sources to parents, so they can make an informed decision.
Boosters to 4 months in early Jan.

Probably the biggest news is the use of "red" to manage an omicron outbreak. Red isn't going to be enough to hold omicron back, so this is pretty much a let it rip strategy. Big change from our past approach.

I dont get that based on your past posts. So you feel we need to shut down NZ?

Kick the can down the road regarding MIQ free arrival from aussie" To me thats sensible until we know more.
Plan to keep Omiricon out "as long as we can", but not resorting to extreme measures like a block on all arrivals, meaning a leak is expected. In the short term its ideal to hang on see what plays out. If Omicron was mild as , as has been "reported", a delay is no big deal. If it was not like that (and ive read an article today on that) then its a risk.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836492 21-Dec-2021 19:38

Scott3:

Unless we are willing to stop all international arrivals, we don't really have a choice. Omicron is so contagious a leak through our MIQ system is likely in the next few weeks.

It's pretty scary , cos as I am quoted saying above, every indication is that it will dramatically impact our hospital system. - and there is not yet evidence that is it pandemic ending.

But to answer the question if I was the government, yeah I would let it rip. Of course that would come at a cost, but the status quo is also costly for NZ. Currently we are bearing the costs of both covid-19 in the community, and a closed border, the worst of both worlds...

Agree. Who is right? let it rip with 60% jabs or with 97% jabs, or to eliminate? No one knows.

In 5 years (assuming its done and dusted well before then), all the academics and GZ posters will know the correct answer. But at 1938 hours on 21/12/2021, we dont.

Go conservative and hang on to know more, or go wild and get the GST, time will tell.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 249

#2836507 21-Dec-2021 20:24

Scott3:
If. And a big if. If this becomes a known way out of the pandemic. And your population is freshly vaccinated. And you are the govt. Would you do it.

Unless we are willing to stop all international arrivals, we don't really have a choice. Omicron is so contagious a leak through our MIQ system is likely in the next few weeks.

It's pretty scary , cos as I am quoted saying above, every indication is that it will dramatically impact our hospital system. - and there is not yet evidence that is it pandemic ending.

But to answer the question if I was the government, yeah I would let it rip. Of course that would come at a cost, but the status quo is also costly for NZ. Currently we are bearing the costs of both covid-19 in the community, and a closed border, the worst of both worlds...

But If I was in power I would be really draconian with my approach:

MIQ stays up to 14 days, increased frequency of staff testing, No new allocations other than humanitarian.
Opening date set to say 14th feb. No MIQ or other covid related border restrictions after that date.
Introduce Mandatory vaccination for all (other than medically exempt)

Say that I am unwilling and find it unethical to allow venerable and misinformation impacted communities (incl maori) to fall through the cracks and carry a disproportionate burden of covid-19.
Require proof of ID at vaccination - Have a system in place to establish the identity of those who have no ID. - Perhaps take the opportunity to (using the drivers licence or passport system) to set up a process where those who have neither can be government issued a free photo ID.
Introduce a new tax rate (say 55% flat) for those who have not provided evidence of current vaccination (incl for eligible kids). Have IRD keep the money in a pool for release as a lump sum when the person is vaccinated.
All those who are arrested, or are held by corrections to be vaccinated by force.
Vaccine pass system removed. No further workplace mandates. (let the government be the bad cop, and get rid of all this devicive stuff around vaccination)
Current vaccine to be: 1st dose within 4 weeks of eligibility, 2nd dose within 8 weeks of that, 1st booster within 7 months of that (or third primary if taken).
Harsh penalties for spreading vaccine or covid-19 mis-information
Shut down platforms (facebook?) who do not effectively moderate mis-infomation.
Lots of promotion of the impacts of covid-19 - genuine sick people who are willing to say on a TV add that they regret not getting the vaccine.
Lots of promotion of opening day, and how it is going to be great to be able to restart the tourism industry (excl offshore flagged cruise ships)
Lots of promotion of "omicron is coming" - High chance that everybody is going to get the virus - we strongly recommend vaccination.

The obvious flaws in my plan are:

I would not make it through the next election.
We could still end up with overloaded hospitals.
The date of reopening is a hard one - needs to be early as possible so we are still in summer, but we are running out of time to prepare, boost etc.
Our highly Pfizer vaccinated population could be prime for a vaccine resistant mutation to come to the fore.

I thoroughly agree with your plan. You would go well in the CCP. Nothing wrong with using draconian powers during a global emergency to protect the integrity of our nation.

Your plan is so comprehensive that I only have one tweak to make to it. To help the homeless and the mentally ill population I would set up finger print scanning options at vaccine centers so that if they lose their I.D. under Grafton bridge, they can just do the scan.

Rather than vaccinate prisoners up front I would make it known that no one unvaccinated has ever got stamped off by the parole board. Therefore all prisoners are subject to parole.

Just keep swimming...

Dell

Shop now for Dell laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

Scott3

4177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2990

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836518 21-Dec-2021 20:50

tdgeek:

I dont get that based on your past posts. So you feel we need to shut down NZ?

"

Kick the can down the road regarding MIQ free arrival from aussie" To me thats sensible until we know more.
Plan to keep Omiricon out "as long as we can", but not resorting to extreme measures like a block on all arrivals, meaning a leak is expected. In the short term its ideal to hang on see what plays out. If Omicron was mild as , as has been "reported", a delay is no big deal. If it was not like that (and ive read an article today on that) then its a risk.

I was purely intending to write a quick and light hearted summary of the press conference.

At this stage I agree that deferring the Aussie self isolation is a good idea. At new years, we will have a much better idea of omicrons impact on health systems.

Scott3

4177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2990

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2836524 21-Dec-2021 21:06

tdgeek:

Agree. Who is right? let it rip with 60% jabs or with 97% jabs, or to eliminate? No one knows.

In 5 years (assuming its done and dusted well before then), all the academics and GZ posters will know the correct answer. But at 1938 hours on 21/12/2021, we dont.

Go conservative and hang on to know more, or go wild and get the GST, time will tell.

Of course, as a forward looking hypothetical decision, based on weak info, there is quite a risk that I got it wrong... Of course, if the rest of the world is getting slaughtered by omicron in late jan, my planned opening in feb could be aborted.

But I note that, the wait (maintain status quo) and see what happen's approach has it's risks as well.

Every day we are rolling the dice on an omicron leak from MIQ. A day that could have been spent preparing for omicron in the community under my plan. (well ideally we would do both, but I don't think there would be buy in for my draconian measures, without a carrot).

And if there isn't a leak, we will be quickly running out of summer to face the omicron peak... Say we open to Self isolation on the 1st of march, and then it takes two weeks to leak from MIQ, and a few weeks to build, then we are already into Autumn.

quickymart

14964 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 14003

ID Verified

#2836525 21-Dec-2021 21:13

wellygary:

Aligning the earlier booster rollout with 5-11s also allows more people to do the "Jab me and my kid together please"

Kids will see their parent get a shot first which helps with their anxiety...

I don't know if my boys watching me get my booster would help with their anxiety, I don't like needles as it is :D

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 249

#2836556 22-Dec-2021 01:03

I am glad there is a four month gap now. It is long enough to freshen up the vaccinators, it allows them to have a wee break and for those still going to not be burnt out.

We need to look after this work force it is looking like a job for life for them.

While jabbing is not strenuous, repeating yourself to hundreds of punters all day and staying on alert or anaphylaxis is. Staying on your feet that long is hard on the body and doing it for months becomes mind numbing.

Through all of that, there is a very high standard to not make errors.

When Children come on line, the little ones, that will be a lot of crying to listen to hey.

Just keep swimming...

1 | ... | 2162 | 2163 | 2164 | 2165 | 2166 | 2167 | 2168 | 2169 | 2170 | 2171 | 2172 | ... | 2429