2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 2251 | 2252 | 2253 | 2254 | 2255 | 2256 | 2257 | 2258 | 2259 | 2260 | 2261 | ... | 2422

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#2857947 28-Jan-2022 19:42

tdgeek:

March 26, 2020. Lockdown. One party said we would have done it sooner, 2 weeks later its too long its too much. If your proposals were made then, good as they are, it would have been laughed out of court. Back then , look at SARS. Covid-19 is SARS 2.0. SARS was harsh but it was gone in no time. Had it been its too much its too long and we let it go, god knows where we would be now, well I guess where many other first world countries are now. Its health vs political. Political you can always vote them out, death you can't. IMHO holding out so we can evaluate has been the best policy. Thats not a political statement its a reality statement.

Agreed if they had been suggested right at the beginning, but what about 18 months ago, or 12 moths ago... by that time it was clear Covid wasn't going away.

The current system was good as a plan to keep Covid out. It worked quite well for a long time. But that's not where we are now, it it was inevitable that we would end up here sooner or later and I feel like the Government (like most other Governments) are winging it.

Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#2857948 28-Jan-2022 19:49

freitasm:

I will put it simply. MIQ exists so we have time to vaccinate and boost. It exists so that less people end up in hospital or dead sooner.

You may not agree but as far as I am concerned we still have had less deaths than other countries.

If that's not a win then our values are different.

I agree when you're talking about original Covid and Delta, MIQ did a good job and NZ got off very lightly as a result. But with Omicron the game has changed, and the rules need to change along with it.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2857949 28-Jan-2022 19:52

Paul1977:I don't know what the "real" plan should, but it's not my job to come up with it.

What they should have been doing for the past 2 years is fast tracking immigration of medical professionals into NZ and increasing ICU (and general hospital) capacity.

I understand that hindsight's a beautiful thing, but it really seems like the governments only plan has been to stop it at the border with very little thought given to what happens in the event of a real mass outbreak - which has always been a possibility. They've had 2 years to prepare, but they still seem to have been caught with their pants down.

The next part of the plan is called 'Phase 2'. After that 'Phase 3'.

Various ones have been suggesting purpose built MIQ facilities these past two years too. What a colossal waste of resources that would end up being, and probably wouldn't have even been started yet.

Isn't the border with Australia being relaxed at the end of February? People need to slow down, take a breath, be patient, and stay calm.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2857950 28-Jan-2022 19:53

Paul1977:
freitasm:

I will put it simply. MIQ exists so we have time to vaccinate and boost. It exists so that less people end up in hospital or dead sooner.

You may not agree but as far as I am concerned we still have had less deaths than other countries.

If that's not a win then our values are different.

I agree when you're talking about original Covid and Delta, MIQ did a good job and NZ got off very lightly as a result. But with Omicron the game has changed, and the rules need to change along with it.

What? Open up the borders for a more contagious variant when we are just about to get vaccination booster underway?

Tell me you folks really believe it to open up is better and you have no problems with the consequences.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2857951 28-Jan-2022 19:56

Paul1977:

Agreed if they had been suggested right at the beginning, but what about 18 months ago, or 12 moths ago... by that time it was clear Covid wasn't going away.

The current system was good as a plan to keep Covid out. It worked quite well for a long time. But that's not where we are now, it it was inevitable that we would end up here sooner or later and I feel like the Government (like most other Governments) are winging it.

Was it inevitable that it was clear that Covid wasn't going away 18 months ago?

Now, which is 22 months later we are winging it. But we are looking at the others who have winged it, and failed. We may fail as well, but look at it relatively, if we are the last kid on the block, yet again, and we have 5yo and up vaccinated, and we fail, thats the best anyone can do. Thats not a bad end game. Say there is a wondrous pill, a new Omicron vaccine (which is on the way), in NZ, there will be many people getting these measures if they come to fruition, that elsewhere are not alive. Because cafes took precedence. I'd like to see the cafe days open by OECD in the last 22 months, I expect we would be well up there.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2857953 28-Jan-2022 20:00

Paul1977:
mattwnz:

That is why home isolation is a bit of a waste of time IMO in terms of preventing the virus getting in . Many people may initially do the right thing, but if they see others openly flouting it and without penalty or a wet bus ticket, then that will erode compliance. I know people who openly flouted it it March 2020 before MIQ came in. Plus you can't stop people visiting. Incoming people into NZ with the virus is what seeds it and create new links of transmission.

I disagree, enough people will do the right thing to make a diffrence. The idea is meant to now be to slow the spread, elimination is no longer possible (it never really was) yet the policies around isolation haven't caught up the the realities of the situation.

Soon we'll be getting 1000s of cases a day, which will mean 10s of 1000s isolating at home. When we have 50,000 people isolated at home, what will the justification be for forcing returning Kiwis to isolate at MIQ facilities?

But we are not there yet. And the little time we get now we vaccinate and prepare hard.

From what I read here you and a couple others want everything open and on a honour system now.

Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#2857970 28-Jan-2022 21:12

freitasm:

But we are not there yet. And the little time we get now we vaccinate and prepare hard.

From what I read here you and a couple others want everything open and on a honour system now.

Not at all. All that's been suggested here is allowing returning Kiwis to isolate at home rather than in MIQ. That's a far cry from opening the flood gates. Unless I missed it, no-one here has been suggesting opening things up.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

ezbee

2405 posts

Uber Geek

#2857973 28-Jan-2022 21:24

Maybe not floodgates ?
I can't remember where but I think that somewhere indicated many 10s K NZers would travel if they could ?
NZers who just come 2,3 times a year to visit relatives.
Plus we have NZers who want to see relatives overseas and then come back.
NZers with holiday home on Gold Coast or Hawaii, or Italy.
NZers with regular business trips queued up.
NZers who work overseas and come back regularly like sports, golfers, engineers, seafarers and such.
Some might not even be tax resident as they don't spend enough time here in total ?

Maybe someone has some estimated numbers

Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#2857977 28-Jan-2022 21:38

freitasm:

What? Open up the borders for a more contagious variant when we are just about to get vaccination booster underway?

Tell me you folks really believe it to open up is better and you have no problems with the consequences.

As above, no one is saying to just "open up". Just saying that if a resident has to isolate they can do it at home, so how is that any less of a risk than if a returnee isolates at home (assuming the can get there without risking others)?

Jase2985

13457 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2857983 28-Jan-2022 21:50

Paul1977:

freitasm:

What? Open up the borders for a more contagious variant when we are just about to get vaccination booster underway?

Tell me you folks really believe it to open up is better and you have no problems with the consequences.

As above, no one is saying to just "open up". Just saying that if a resident has to isolate they can do it at home, so how is that any less of a risk than if a returnee isolates at home (assuming the can get there without risking others)?

because the residents case is already in the community and the returnee's case isn't. its once less potential patient zero for a cluster.

When we have widespread transmission of covid, which will be likely happen in a few weeks/month then yea get rid of MIQ as the 20-40 per day will be nothing compared to what we already have but at the moment it slows things down.

If you have ever dealt with some of the people in MIQ, there are some that wouldnt give two hoots about self isolating.