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chatterbox
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  #2858026 29-Jan-2022 00:17
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tdgeek:

chatterbox:

@freitasm are kiwis in NZ covid positive more or less trustworthy than those incoming from overseas with respect to home isolation? And why is there a difference in the options provided to each category?

@jase2985 if positives isolate at home yes without lying etc, there is no increased risk to NZ. That’s obvious.

I’ll pose the same question to you that I did to freitasm regarding covid positives. Why can community positives isolate at home but not incoming?

Especially in NZ where elimination isn’t a sustainable strategy?

The people who need boosting know who they are, they’re the elderly and the vulnerable. They were prioritized last year and stand to gain the most from boosters keeping them out of hospital. Boosting a healthy 30 year old to prevent them from getting a snotty nose is hardly the sound policy borders were based on, so whilst they’re eligible, there’s no reason to keep MIQ to protect healthy double vaxxed against an illness that won’t put them in hospital or won’t keep them there for prolonged periods. With vaccination the balance has shifted in a major way. The unvaccinated, well, they’ve had their opportunities.

So home iso is a perfectly reasonable plan and has been for some time however border policy assessors haven’t had the skill to make these decisions. If the Victorian review was anything to go by, NZ are just as bad if not worse at making these assessments. And I find it absolutely crazy that kiwis are ok with this without weighing up both sides.

Will genuinely be curious when NZ is actually living with the virus who actually believes life is much different to what they experience now?


Good points, BUT, if you extracted 100 incoming in MIQ and 100 randoms, the propensity to be Omicron positive is vastly skewed to MIQ people. Thats now, so why exacerbate the internal NZ issue? If and when its rife here it doesnt matter. But its not rife here, so dont add to it.



During delta they said too many cases at the border don’t let them in. When delta cases were high in Auckland they said the system wasn’t coping so don’t let more in. Along with something about not striking matches during a wildfire. It was a lose lose situation and here’s concern the same argument will apply to Omicron.



freitasm
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  #2858027 29-Jan-2022 00:19
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What about you complain if it happens instead of creating a strawman?




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cokemaster
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  #2858028 29-Jan-2022 00:23
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freitasm: You mean https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2021/12/covid-19-anti-vaxx-mandate-protesters-rally-outside-auckland-s-lone-star-new-lynn.html


 

Yes - I drove past yesterday and today... they were there. I didn't see the news articles until later (after consulting google). 





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chatterbox
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  #2858029 29-Jan-2022 00:35
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freitasm:
@chatterbox: Will genuinely be curious when NZ is actually living with the virus who actually believes life is much different to what they experience now?


I will put it simply. MIQ exists so we have time to vaccinate and boost. It exists so that less people end up in hospital or dead sooner.

You may not agree but as far as I am concerned we still have had less deaths than other countries.

If that's not a win then our values are different.


Vaccinations do the heavy lifting but if people are serious about not landing in hospital then they’ll employ those other measures like social distancing meeting outdoors and wearing masks.
Pretty easy to employ, just for the sake of letting people out of a box of a hotel room to be at home instead. It’s a small sacrifice given most people should probably be doing the above anyway and that’s going to be a setting that exists for the vulnerable for some time to come.

The vulnerable will be boosted already, They were prioritized before delta.
5-11 year olds were never the ones overwhelming hospitals.

You mention deaths. The way I look at it is that for 2 years some coming through MIQ were denied access to their dying relatives to say goodbye at all even from non covid diseases. That one chance was taken from them. For those in NZ they’ve had 2 years to spend lots of time with those relatives to say goodbye who may die from covid.

quickymart
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  #2858047 29-Jan-2022 07:48
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cokemaster:

 

freitasm: You mean https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2021/12/covid-19-anti-vaxx-mandate-protesters-rally-outside-auckland-s-lone-star-new-lynn.html


 

Yes - I drove past yesterday and today... they were there. I didn't see the news articles until later (after consulting google). 

 

 

I thought the owners closed that branch already?


Eva888
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  #2858102 29-Jan-2022 09:36
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I am convinced airplanes are the spreader culprit. Look at how many fly here and test with Covid even though they have been preflight tested, vaxxed, boosted and masked. You can bet passengers would be extra careful the weeks leading up to their flight so that their preflight PCR test would clear them to travel, but still they arrive and are positive within days.

Was talking to friends in Beirut last night. Their family now work in Qatar. All of the family got Delta the first time around and were cured isolating at home. Two adults, two kids all double vaccinated and boosted, they flew back to Lebanon for New Years (winter there) got tested and cleared to fly back home to Qatar...all became sick a few days after their return, but the grandparents who stayed back are fine.

It reminded me of my flying years where within a week of landing, most times I would get sick. I really think the airlines need to up their game in the cleaning and air quality department.

cokemaster
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  #2858105 29-Jan-2022 10:01
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@quickymart didn't stop the owners from putting their Lonestar company car/ute front and centre of their mini 'trump rally'... 





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quickymart
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  #2858111 29-Jan-2022 10:13
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I daresay they'll stop being a Lone Star and become something else instead on the same site.

 

All these places that think they know more than doctors and medical experts and don't follow due process say their businesses are "booming" but what I've seen anecdotally on here indicates otherwise.

 

I used to like the products from Grownup Donuts but after seeing they're going down the same road as this Lone Star I think I'll stop giving them my patronage too.


Oblivian
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  #2858113 29-Jan-2022 10:31
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quickymart:

I thought the owners closed that branch already?



They 'stood down'. (And Said they wouldn't quietly)

I suspect still being dicks at handing it to someone who's less a dick. So franchise will pull the contract and likely lose it totally.

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  #2858114 29-Jan-2022 10:36
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Eva888: I am convinced airplanes are the spreader culprit. Look at how many fly here and test with Covid even though they have been preflight tested, vaxxed, boosted and masked.


Yet One news broadcast a big fancy infographic using their digital overly system reassuring the country last night that It's safe and this is why...

:P

Given our local examples. I'd be putting it down to final goodbyes. They all had their tests as they got to the destination for short stays to prevent return delays. Still 3 days left to see infection. Funeral/Catch-up/see fam/hugs/goodbye family.

3-5 days after event. Oh look, positive.

cokemaster
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  #2858115 29-Jan-2022 10:38
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I believe they had 10 working days to achieve compliance before their franchise agreement would be pulled. I’m pretty sure they’re either at end of this or this deadline has lapsed. Having reviewed a few franchise agreements in the past, it would not surprise me if this ended up in tears for the rebellious New Lynn owners.




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Oblivian
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  #2858117 29-Jan-2022 10:45
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Lapsed when I mentioned it a few days/pages back. It was buried under national news rather than OMG CLICK ME banner we usually expect

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-owners-of-auckland-lone-star-restaurant-step-down-after-refusing-vaccination-mandates/BGF7JGRWDWBVAZSY4NRBAZ6AUQ/

quickymart
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  #2858123 29-Jan-2022 11:12
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Good job, now they can get someone in who actually wants to follow the rules to keep everyone safe.


ezbee
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  #2858124 29-Jan-2022 11:18
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Re Nelson.
The pictures of Nelson omicron outbreak show an ATR turboprop ?
The various claims made about ventilation in large wide bodied Jets don't really apply here ?

 

Interesting a contact has still not been found as this had to come across the boarder, but then so many other things do.

 

Given that filters were 'supposed' to be changed regularly it might have been a precaution to swab and test filters. 
Much like we do the more difficult sewage sampling for general surveillance. It might have been quite easy.

 

What you fly might matter ?


Oblivian
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  #2858125 29-Jan-2022 11:26
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ezbee:

Re Nelson.
The pictures of Nelson omicron outbreak show an ATR turboprop ?
The various claims made about ventilation in large wide bodied Jets don't really apply here ?




Potentially

All the flights with NZ5xxx and NZ8xxx are atr and dash-8

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