2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2941104 12-Jul-2022 12:23

Not sure how you solve that. We run on bare staff levels since forever. You cant magic up doctors and nurses in a hurry, and hard to import them if other countries have the same issue. Also hard to decide in March 2020 that we need to ramp them up, but then, everyone was in lockdown so how do you train them or import them? Even though now, its just hindsight. We didnt do it for SARS either, but unfortunately SARS2 took off

wellygary

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#2941106 12-Jul-2022 12:26

arnies:

Well thats not what the data suggests right now: "The current rate of hospitalisations in Auckland and Counties Manukau is in line with rates seen in recent years."

But that's certainly not the story being reported every day...

Hospitalisations are only one very small part, ED are certainly stretched, and the fact most hospitals are now "pausing" electives is another sign things are not going well

"As respiratory diseases like flu and the rampant BA.5 subvariant spread, our shortage of nurses, who have been stretched for years, becomes abundantly clear. Emergency departments are no longer meeting wait time targets, GPs are fully booked, surgeries are being deferred. "

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300631534/live-how-is-the-health-system-coping-amid-covid19-flu-and-staff-shortages

johno1234

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#2941111 12-Jul-2022 12:44

Oblivian:

wellygary:

I don't really think so, and anyway what mask setting could be changed?!?

At Orange you are required to wear a mask indoors and on Public transport/ubers/taxis

The only real indoor exceptions are Food/Drink establishments and schools.

Schools are the interesting place I though they might have moved on, but the recent announcement was "here's a bunch of masks if you want them " indicates they don't see it as a priority..

The Food/Drink masking won't change that much as you were already allowed to remove them to eat and drink....

'Required' is the key here. At present. Businesses are told to not confront people. Yet they're 'required' - And most others aren't giving a hoot. So this 'requirement' is a very loose term it would seem.

The PM has repeatedly said in the last week 'wear one when you are outside your home'. But like school kids, the message isn't being heard without conviction. Am expecting a change to wording there.

Food and drink are also rather grey. Takeaways - YES, on paper (so you will see maccas and BK staff all with them all day long).

Customers? 'this is a "restaurant", so I don't have to!'. I go to a regular 'entertainment' spot weekly. It is a rec sports facility, with a bar and food area. How does one classify that if not self-classifying and making their own guidelines? At one point the place was filled with 'no mask no entry' and staff wearing. You had to unless in the seated/activity area but did transiting and so on. Week to week it went from all gone (incl staff). to A week later back but no signage.

I actually want to go back to the days where people still gave you a wide berth as they were near you. Rather than keep breathing toward me in my space unhindered.

Article online yesterday of someone taking CO2 measurements. AKA everyone elses breath in open space. It wasn't pretty on transport or enclosed areas.

There's little to gain by strengthening the wear a mask rules unless you can get proper masks worn properly. The current messaging is simplistic: wear a mask. But many or most people are wearing useless cloth masks, or useless ill fitting surgical masks with gaps, or wearing masks under their noses. All of these are useless. Worse than useless if it gives people a false sense of security. Do those people with cloth masks really think it is offering protection, or do they know they're a bit useless and just wear them because they are more comfortable and get them past the front door of the supermarket?

N95 masks, worn properly, fit like a scuba mask and are about as claustrophobic.

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#2941115 12-Jul-2022 13:01

arnies:

Well thats not what the data suggests right now: "The current rate of hospitalisations in Auckland and Counties Manukau is in line with rates seen in recent years."

We don't actually know what the data suggests right now. What does "in line with" mean exactly? About the same? About the same, given population growth? About what we planned for? Within 10%? Within a standard deviation? Within an order of magnitude?

When I see a Govt dept using a vague "measure" like that, I assume it's because the news that they're giving is bad, and that vagueness makes it sound less bad.

Oblivian

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#2941121 12-Jul-2022 13:25

johno1234:

There's little to gain by strengthening the wear a mask rules unless you can get proper masks worn properly. The current messaging is simplistic: wear a mask. But many or most people are wearing useless cloth masks, or useless ill fitting surgical masks with gaps, or wearing masks under their noses. All of these are useless. Worse than useless if it gives people a false sense of security. Do those people with cloth masks really think it is offering protection, or do they know they're a bit useless and just wear them because they are more comfortable and get them past the front door of the supermarket?

N95 masks, worn properly, fit like a scuba mask and are about as claustrophobic.

Preaching.

But If you see the same article about the CO2 levels (which can be indicative of outward breath) supermarket numbers were inline with Healths statement that there has been little found transference in that environment. Likely as a result, it is short in passing encounters in a wide open space. So it doesn't really quantify even if they are just for the sake of it. Schools busses and office areas however...

But it doesn't bypass that the messaging is flagged that its about to strengthened, or change after the Health updates to govt yesterday. And there are likely changes afoot.

Cabinet ministers met yesterday to discuss the Covid-19 situation but have not yet revealed any actions or decisions made as a result.

It may well be as there has been time for all those with proper exemptions to get them from the correct channel that the switch is about to be thrown. And a heap of people about to be caught out. (eqally across the ditch there is a call to bring them back in for everywhere out of home)

Even Mr Luxon has slightly changed his tune from 'scrap it all'

National Party leader Christopher Luxon says he hopes a revamp of the Covid-19 orange setting expected this week delivered simple and clear rules for mask use, but has questioned the need to keep the traffic-light system in place.

wellygary

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#2941131 12-Jul-2022 13:55

johno1234:

N95 masks, worn properly, fit like a scuba mask and are about as claustrophobic.

Yes, but when you have the MoH recommending AGAINST giving N95s to "clinically vulnerable and at-risk populations" because,

"concerned people would not know how to wear a respirator properly and because "a possible perception by some individuals that they are 'protected' by a higher grade of mask may increase complacency and reduce compliance with fundamental infection prevention and control practices: the benefits of increased respiratory protection may be offset by reduced compliance with basic practices, such as staying home when sick, physical distancing or hand washing."

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ministry-urged-to-update-mask-and-isolation-advice

You might as well give up now... as there is no way they are going to recommend or require N95s for the General Population.....

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johno1234

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#2941134 12-Jul-2022 14:05

wellygary:

johno1234:

N95 masks, worn properly, fit like a scuba mask and are about as claustrophobic.

Yes, but when you have the MoH recommending AGAINST giving N95s to "clinically vulnerable and at-risk populations" because,

"concerned people would not know how to wear a respirator properly and because "a possible perception by some individuals that they are 'protected' by a higher grade of mask may increase complacency and reduce compliance with fundamental infection prevention and control practices: the benefits of increased respiratory protection may be offset by reduced compliance with basic practices, such as staying home when sick, physical distancing or hand washing."

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ministry-urged-to-update-mask-and-isolation-advice

You might as well give up now... as there is no way they are going to recommend or require N95s for the General Population.....

TBH I kinda have... The mask mandate, such as it is, seems futile. Notwithstanding ineffective masks: not being enforced at all on buses which are high risk. Barely enforced by Jetstar. Enforced vigorously by AirNZ on aircraft that are extremely well filtered and ventilated and low risk, but anyway everyone takes off their masks at exactly the same time when the snacks and drinks come out...

Omnishambles.

Daynger

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#2941252 12-Jul-2022 18:11

The attitudes towards masks have really flipped.

I was in an electrical supplier yesterday and the guy behind the counter asked "whats with the masks guys, all three of you have them on".

None of the staff were wearing masks, all of the customers i was in the place were.

I told him "Its come to protecting yourself now, if i get it ill likely get a free trip to hospital, i hate hospital, and if i visit my mother and give it to her she will likely get a free trip to the morgue."

If he doesnt want to wear a mask, whatever, i dont care if he keels over, but dont challenge me or try to shame me for wearing one.

Ill be having a chat to head office tomorrow morning when im there to clarify their mask requirements for their staff as quite a few branches have been really slack.

Oblivian

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#2941261 12-Jul-2022 18:27

It's fairly Clear cut

"Inside a retail business — for example, supermarkets, shopping malls, pharmacies, petrol stations and takeaway food stores"

Essentially a face to face contact where you can't identify the person or trace your actions

But as you find. Many are classifying themselves and making up their own (which may soon change)

Better come back is along the lines of saying you have an incurable infection and don't like sharing. But you'll take it off and share like they are if they want...

mattwnz

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#2941313 12-Jul-2022 18:57

arnies:

mattwnz:

IMO politics are now getting in the way of the Covid response and the decisions making needs removing from politicians. The traffic light system was always a poor replacement for levels, and as the PM said, there it is unlikely to make much difference going back to red. Covid has always been political.. But there obviously now needs to be more emphasis on mask wearing to flatten the curve, as well as getting more people using N95s. Hospitals will be likely be completely overwhelmed in a few weeks at the current trajectory. Already the normal NZ health system is badly affected

Covid isn't overwhelming hospitals. From the MoH:

Of the 76 people in Auckland and Counties Manukau hospitals confirmed with SARI illnesses (severe acute respiratory infection) COVID-19 was the cause of infection in 24 percent of those tested for COVID-19, and Influenza was the cause in 52 percent of those tested for influenza.
Other causes of infection were rhinoviruses and enteroviruses.
The current rate of hospitalisations in Auckland and Counties Manukau is in line with rates seen in recent years.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/10710-community-cases-554-hospitalisations-12-icu-15-deaths

I have heard many people interviewed in the media saying hospitals are overwhelmed, and thus affecting normal services and treatments of other things. Apparently there are substantial delays for elective surgery, far more than normal.
Whether hospitals are filling up solely from covid or other similar illnesses is irrelevant. As shown overseas, other illnesses were also going to rise when borders opened up. The numbers can be decreased by N95 mask wearing, staying home if sick etc Also increasing flu vaccination levels by making it free for all IMO is a no brainer. But it seems that they don't want to spend any more money on it. They did make it free a few weeks ago for children, which was a step in the right direction, considering we know how much schools cause this virus to spread between households.

mattwnz

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#2941314 12-Jul-2022 19:00

PolicyGuy:

Go to the supermarket, lots of customers without masks
Catch public transport, ditto - an AT bus driver said on Morning Report today "ten percent of passengers get on not wearing a mask"
I had a haircut last week: five barbers going flat out, none of them wearing masks, customers waiting were about 50/50 on mask wearing

LOL, I don't think now is the best time to be getting a hair cut, as cases seem to be skyrocketing mid winter. Although if it is empty and staff masked , it maybe ok :/

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Stu1

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#2941317 12-Jul-2022 19:09

Daynger:
The attitudes towards masks have really flipped.

I was in an electrical supplier yesterday and the guy behind the counter asked "whats with the masks guys, all three of you have them on".

None of the staff were wearing masks, all of the customers i was in the place were.

I told him "Its come to protecting yourself now, if i get it ill likely get a free trip to hospital, i hate hospital, and if i visit my mother and give it to her she will likely get a free trip to the morgue."

If he doesnt want to wear a mask, whatever, i dont care if he keels over, but dont challenge me or try to shame me for wearing one.

Ill be having a chat to head office tomorrow morning when im there to clarify their mask requirements for their staff as quite a few branches have been really slack.

Went to Taupo in the weekend no one was wearing masks in the Super market, motel owner wasn’t, tourism operaters weren’t either .

HelloThere

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#2941322 12-Jul-2022 19:22

The mask use is dropping faster than flies. Probably 50% of customers in our local supermarket weren't wearing them. Went to book a hair cut a couple of days ago and the four barbers and their customers weren't wearing anything. I think the longer the restrictions go on the less people are going to be wearing them and the more the Government requires them the more people will push back.

alasta

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#2941334 12-Jul-2022 20:54

It's interesting hearing all these anecdotes of low rates of mask use. On buses in Wellington, and at the supermarket, I occasionally see a few yobbos without masks but generally compliance is still very high.

Having said that, I am not as concerned about mask use as I am about people spewing clouds of water vapour out of their lungs into peoples' faces. That must be a huge vector for transmission and the health authorities seem to be just ignoring the huge prevalence of this problem.

wellygary

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#2941393 13-Jul-2022 09:32

alasta:

It's interesting hearing all these anecdotes of low rates of mask use. On buses in Wellington, and at the supermarket, I occasionally see a few yobbos without masks but generally compliance is still very high.

Wellington is an uber-liberal COVID rule abiding bubble, there are still plenty of people masking up even to walk down Lambton quay...

But once you leave the bubble to go to places like the malls in lower Hutt or Porirua, its like a different country, it seems to get more relaxed the further you get from the Beehive :)

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