2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2449031 28-Mar-2020 19:01

freitasm:

Understandable. Ideally, people would post with at least two quotes if possible - but even better if replies were more than a single word reply/short sentence. We really want contributions...

Does that extend to posts that keep carping about official advice and recommendations? Some questioning of the reasons for things is sensible and acceptable, but there comes a point where you just say "enough!" Here is a recent example:

So the officials are OK with you leaving your house if others in your bubble are sick, so long as you are not currently sick. Have they not heard of asymptomatic spread? So much for "don't be stupid" if their own advice is stupid.

The experts do make mistakes and get things wrong. They are human. So are those responsible for policy decisions. But these people are under a lot of pressure, trying to make life-or-death decisions as quickly as possible, moving mountains to save lives, working day and night, genuinely going the extra mile and striving to do their very best. They are not idiots. They have thought of the obvious things and based their advice on the best information available to them. They know things we don't. They have to take into consideration a wide range of factors ordinary people may not know about or understand. I am sure they have heard of 'asymptomatic spread' and I am sure they are not providing 'stupid advice'. Give them a break. Give them some credit for the very hard job they are doing trying to hold this country together in a time of unparalleled challenge.

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#2449032 28-Mar-2020 19:03

mudguard:

debo:

So the officials are OK with you leaving your house if others in your bubble are sick, so long as you are not currently sick. Have they not heard of asymptomatic spread? So much for "don't be stupid" if their own advice is stupid.

How do you get groceries if you're not near friends or family?

Anyone. i not care who you use as long as you don't go out spreading the virus.

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#2449035 28-Mar-2020 19:06

apologies for the conspiracies, this is an interview from the South Korean expert.

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#2449039 28-Mar-2020 19:14

Rikkitic:

freitasm:

Understandable. Ideally, people would post with at least two quotes if possible - but even better if replies were more than a single word reply/short sentence. We really want contributions...

Does that extend to posts that keep carping about official advice and recommendations? Some questioning of the reasons for things is sensible and acceptable, but there comes a point where you just say "enough!" Here is a recent example:

So the officials are OK with you leaving your house if others in your bubble are sick, so long as you are not currently sick. Have they not heard of asymptomatic spread? So much for "don't be stupid" if their own advice is stupid.

The experts do make mistakes and get things wrong. They are human. So are those responsible for policy decisions. But these people are under a lot of pressure, trying to make life-or-death decisions as quickly as possible, moving mountains to save lives, working day and night, genuinely going the extra mile and striving to do their very best. They are not idiots. They have thought of the obvious things and based their advice on the best information available to them. They know things we don't. They have to take into consideration a wide range of factors ordinary people may not know about or understand. I am sure they have heard of 'asymptomatic spread' and I am sure they are not providing 'stupid advice'. Give them a break. Give them some credit for the very hard job they are doing trying to hold this country together in a time of unparalleled challenge.

Exactly right. They even said, which has been ignored, that they need to act now, sort out the various issues on the fly. The other option is wait for weeks to dot every i and cross every t. Another nice example is an apparently powerful parliamentary group over this recess. The Government has appointed Simon Bridges to lead that, and its 2/3 Opposition. Its a New Zealand issue. And driven by medical experts. If we cannot give the Government, and the Opposition and the Ministry of Health trust here, well, Im not sure what to suggest.

mentalinc

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#2449051 28-Mar-2020 19:34

tdgeek:
freitasm:

Some people might not have planned well enough and might need petrol for grocery shopping. Once filled, a tank for a non-essential worker living in a suburb with its own supermart should be enough for a four-week lockdown, surely?

I agree. i didn't plan well enough, my work role has been smothered with work due to many working from home. Put off groceries as no time to wait behind panic buyers. I actually felt guilty driving to the gas station. Having said that, why are so many cars on the road today? Ill admit his post, mentalinc annoyed me. As someone like many who take the lockdown seriously.

It was local, now sorted.

It sounded like a random trip to the gas station for something to do (cabin fever setting in). Didn't mean to offend, more point out tiki tours to the gas station are not on the list of ok things to do. Get it on the way to the supermarket or doctors should work for 95% of people.

Seems with your role the 5% of times your story makes sense.

But your original post i took offence to basically read:

Went for a random drive to the gas station.

Saw lots of other cars going for random drives.

Why are they not staying at home, get of the road people.

yes people are allowed to drive to the supermarket, essential work and medical needs)

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#2449054 28-Mar-2020 19:36

Press release:

New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response.

Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing kits used for COVID-19 testing and soap imports in the first instance.

Officials are in the process of identifying other medical and hygiene products needed for the COVID-19 response, and further tariff concessions will follow shortly.

“There is increased global demand for these medical and hygiene products and some countries are restricting their exports of them. We want to make sure that New Zealand has the most straightforward and cost effective access possible to the supply of the goods needed to respond to COVID-19,” Kris Faafoi said.

“Even though New Zealand already has low tariffs overall, and a significant proportion of our imports are tariff-free thanks to our free trade agreements, some imported products required for the COVID-19 response remain subject to tariffs. Removing tariffs on these products will reduce their cost of imports and facilitate access to them from the widest possible range of overseas suppliers.”

David Parker said it is imperative that during the COVID-19 global pandemic, trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and food continues to flow freely.

“This is why New Zealand, Singapore, Australia, Canada, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar recently announced our shared commitment to maintaining open and connected trade and supply chains.

“We believe that global cooperation on trade can enable a better response to this global health crisis. We are encouraging other countries to join us in this commitment as soon as possible,” David Parker said

“Removing tariffs on relevant products and spending $600 million of the more than $25 billion COVID-19 support package to keep air freight moving gives effect to this commitment. We are also actively exploring other initiatives with our trading partners to keep trade flowing.”

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#2449062 28-Mar-2020 19:46

mentalinc:

It sounded like a random trip to the gas station for something to do (cabin fever setting in). Didn't mean to offend, more point out tiki tours to the gas station are not on the list of ok things to do. Get it on the way to the supermarket or doctors should work for 95% of people. Seems with your role the 5% of times your story makes sense. But your original post i took offence to basically read: Went for a random drive to the gas station. Saw lots of other cars going for random drives. Why are they not staying at home, get of the road people. yes people are allowed to drive to the supermarket, essential work and medical needs)

Your enhanced version of what I wrote is quite unfair. If I was taking the piss, I wouldn't be posting it. Cabin Fever is no issue for me I work from home and love it for a few years, hence I commenced the WFH thread. I have mates who will/are getting cabin fever which is a concern to me, which I cannot help with apart from advice

As we all know, traffic got sparse to say the least. Saturday it's not. That was my point, the only point. I don't see Saturday as a peak point for supermarkets, or essential services or medical needs. Thats all.

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#2449063 28-Mar-2020 19:49

For everyone here in Germany who wants to "go about their business" again and hoped for a return to normality, the government has made it very clear that there are no discussions about the continuation of the measures over at least the next few weeks. As understandable as it is for many existences, it must be clear to everyone that this is not a cold of 2 weeks, but will bring us all to our limits - and our neighboring countries beyond at the time.

The police are now subject to even stricter penalties for violating the applicable regulations and rigorously withdrawing business permits from businesses that violate the restrictions. If more than 2 people are found together in public (except families - parents and kids only, no grannies), this means fines. The tone becomes much rougher for ignorant people.

It's hard to understand even for the elders NOT to go outside in the warm springtime sun after winter time (here) for the first time of their life with flowers starting everywhere. Those empty gardens and streets are spooky.

As a gesture of humanity, we accepted the really hardest cases with helicopters from some neighboring countries and transferred them to the ICUs that are not yet fully utilized.

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#2449065 28-Mar-2020 19:55

Batman:

apologies for the conspiracies, this is an interview from the South Korean expert.

There's nothing to apologise for there - that's very good (though I only watched the first 10 minutes).

They need to find out more about "reinfection". It's being reported in Wuhan too.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/27/822407626/mystery-in-wuhan-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-negative-then-positive?

So it could be fault in the testing, it could be something that's not very good news about the virus, or it could be an almost expected effect of anti virals that aren't quite good enough - rebound. If they get rebound with existing antivirals, then the good news is that the antivirals do work a bit - but the bad news is that they won't for long - as that's how resistance develops. (similar effect to stopping a course of antibiotics too soon or not used properly - the "surviving" bacteria may have mutated to become resistant to that treatment. That happened with H1N1 pandemic in 2009. Tamiflu worked - and then it didn't...

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#2449067 28-Mar-2020 20:03

This is brilliantly funny:

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#2449074 28-Mar-2020 20:32

I love that!

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#2449075 28-Mar-2020 20:34

Fred99:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/27/822407626/mystery-in-wuhan-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-negative-then-positive?

It's not a mystery at all, if you've got a test with a certain FP and FN rate, a.k.a. Type 1 and 2 errors, and you rerun the test you're going to get this in a small number of cases. It's like cancer tests, run enough of them on a person and everyone has cancer if you assume a single positive at any point is a true positive. So you just need to stab people up the nose the requisite number of times and you'll know with good certainty :-).

The reporting isn't very well done, it's scare, scare, scare, scare, scare, scare... explanation. Would have been better put as something like "Tests have shown this, and it's probably caused by this, here's the rest of the report". In particular a quote from a statistician to say "this is expected and we're dealing with it" would have been useful.

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#2449077 28-Mar-2020 20:40

And in particular before people start projecting reinfection-we're-all-going-to-die onto it, the problem is almost certainly the fallibility of the tests, not some scary mutation of the virus. Ideally we'd use a cheap/quick screening test with close to zero false negatives and only for the cases that trigger that move onto a more expensive/laborious second test that has close to zero false positives. At the moment we're stuck with various tests with nonzero FP and FN rates, and possibly some uncertainty over what the rates actually are due to the rapid development of the situation.

Unfortunately I see that report being misinterpreted widely in the next few days.

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#2449080 28-Mar-2020 20:49

For your reading pleasure: The Global Impact of COVID-19 and Strategies for Mitigation and Suppression (PDF).

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#2449081 28-Mar-2020 20:52

Having agreed with the decision to allow Tabaco products to continue to be produced as an essential service, I am equally strongly disagreeing with making alcohol delivery services essential.

This is 200 types of dumb. Alcohol impairs peoples decision making, coordination and mood. Responsible drinkers can get booze from a supermarket, or liquor store. Most probably stocked up in advance with their usual supply and 20% on top.

Feedback from Doctors has been all but universally, negative saying they expect to see more in-home accidents and incidents that will require otherwise unlikely to occur medical attention.

I'd almost prefer weed home deliveries (I am opposed to weed in general) as less harmful.

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