2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2454843 5-Apr-2020 10:37

Dial111:
freitasm:

If you want to discuss the politics of this response use the thread here

Covid19 Different political parties views

If you post political statements in this thread you will be locked out of the Health sub-forum entirely.

Not sure why my comment was deleted as it was not political in any way, I merely said I was happy with the job the PM has done so far, is that not allowed?

The problem is that the politics of Covid is intertwined with the medical aspects of Covid & some people are banned from Politics and maybe some from Health sub-forum..

dejadeadnz

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#2454844 5-Apr-2020 10:37

DarthKermit:

Man arrested after filming himself coughing on fellow shoppers

I hope they throw the book at this total moron. I can't believe how forking stupid some people are.

This guy shouldn't get bail. Here's hoping.

frankv

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#2454854 5-Apr-2020 10:48

spaceknight:

I find it bizarre that turning on the mobile GPS tracking is voluntary in New Zealand for people arriving from overseas. In some countries it's mandatory.

Making it mandatory is nonsense. If it was mandatory, you would just leave your phone at home whenever you went out. Or are millenials so welded to their phones that this wouldn't be an option for them?

It makes much more sense to include the people in the decision-making than to take the authoritarian big brother approach.

If you say to people that we would like to track you, to warn if you have come into contact with someone likely to have covid-19, you'll have better buy-in. If you start out by waving the big stick, people's focus will be on avoiding the stick, not the purpose for you waving it.

kingdragonfly

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#2454855 5-Apr-2020 10:51

DarthKermit:
Man arrested after filming himself coughing on fellow shoppers

I hope they throw the book at this total moron. I can't believe how forking stupid some people are.

He's not stupid; he's a psychopath.

excluding the Christchurch shooter, he's definitely the #2 most hated person in Christchurch.

Hey, buddy if you're reading this, good luck ever getting employment ever again. I hope you lose everything you own.

FineWine

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#2454859 5-Apr-2020 10:56

Limited recreation purposes

e. a person leaving their residence for the purpose of exercise or other recreation if-
i. it is done in an outdoor place that can be readily accessed from their residence; and

ii. it is done in compliance with clause 1(b) of this order (the physical distancing requirements0 and the order forbidding congregation in outdoor places made under s70(1)(m) of the Health Act 1956 on 24 March 2020; and

iii. it does not involve swimming, water-based activities (for example, surfing or boating), hunting, or other activities of a kind that expose participants to danger or may require search and rescue services.

The above is a direct quote Section 70(1)(f) Health Act Order

'readily accessed from their residence' I mean come on 'how long is a piece of string'

A friend in Birkenhead cycles 2.2 km to New World.
My brother in Taupo cycles 30km around his immediate Wharewaka estate neighbourhood, ONCE.
My brother-in-law cycles 32 km around his immediate neighbourhood Leamington, Cambridge 10 times.
My partner is NZ Bus driver in Tauranga and spots the same cyclist several times kilometres apart each time on his urban run.

This really needs to be clarified. No wonder the police are not really policing this and a lawyer would have a field day with it.

My brother in Taupo also mentioned that the local young (hoons) in their cars are coming down to the water front in the small secluded bays, for which Wharewaka has several, 2,3 or 4 to a car. They stay in their cars with the windows down and yell across to each other. Their argument is the the car is their bubble.

How about a 2100 or 2200 curfew.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

gchiu

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#2454860 5-Apr-2020 10:56

DarthKermit:

Man arrested after filming himself coughing on fellow shoppers

I hope they throw the book at this total moron. I can't believe how forking stupid some people are.

Graham Hill Roofing want their jacket back!

Lenovo

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frankv

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#2454864 5-Apr-2020 10:59

iamaelephant:
tdgeek:

Should we monitor existing citizens to the same degree? They are much more unreliable.

You've made this point multiple times but I don't believe you're asking in good faith. But in case you've missed the blindingly obvious, kiwis returning from overseas are overwhelmingly more likely to have the virus. As is borne out in stats you yourself have quoted several times.

Kiwis returning from overseas are doing so largely because they are well aware of covid-19 and the dangers it poses. They've demonstrated already that they are prepared to make large sacrifices (financial and lifestyle) to get away from it. I think it follows that we can expect them to be *more* compliant with covid-19 restrictions than Kiwis who haven't decided for themselves to sacrifice a significant part of their lifestyle. Hence, although returnees are more likely to have the disease, they are also more likely to self-isolate properly, and therefore pose no real risk to the rest of the population. Hence there's no need to get heavy-handed and authoritarian with them.

And I think the general low level of CT originating with post-lockdown returnees bears that out.

DarthKermit

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#2454866 5-Apr-2020 11:00

gchiu:

DarthKermit:

Man arrested after filming himself coughing on fellow shoppers

I hope they throw the book at this total moron. I can't believe how forking stupid some people are.

Graham Hill Roofing want their jacket back!

Not sure that would be a good idea after he's been using it!

frankv

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#2454868 5-Apr-2020 11:02

debo:

The phone isnt welded to the body: The app they are using overseas can video call to ensure you are not leaving the phone at home while you are out infecting others. If you fail the test you get collected and taken to a government enforced hotel lockdown.

Presumably your phone gets collected, because the authorities don't know where you are.

freitasm

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#2454870 5-Apr-2020 11:04

FineWine:

'readily accessed from their residence' I mean come on 'how long is a piece of string'

A friend in Birkenhead cycles 2.2 km to New World.
My brother in Taupo cycles 30km around his immediate Wharewaka estate neighbourhood, ONCE.
My brother-in-law cycles 32 km around his immediate neighbourhood Leamington, Cambridge 10 times.
My partner is NZ Bus driver in Tauranga and spots the same cyclist several times kilometres apart each time on his urban run.
This really needs to be clarified. No wonder the police are not really policing this and a lawyer would have a field day with it.

My brother in Taupo also mentioned that the local young (hoons) in their cars are coming down to the water front in the small secluded bays, for which Wharewaka has several, 2,3 or 4 to a car. They stay in their cars with the windows down and yell across to each other. Their argument is the the car is their bubble.

I think these cyclists tend to be the worse. They can't limit themselves and come up with the "I am not interacting with anyone."

Yesterday walking around the block we saw two motorcyclists going really fast around the corners - by the looks of it going up to Ohariu Valley Rd (their motorcycles were off-road types). Even my 13-year old daughter mentioned "I don't think they are going for walk around the block".

Yes, I think my 13-year old is smarter than those guys.

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ezbee

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#2454873 5-Apr-2020 11:05

On the low takeup of Police monitoring app.

I understand the uptake is only around 50% or lower.

In hindsight it would be better if more time had been spent with incoming passengers getting it working before exiting the customs hall.

People could then be sure this is really the official app , as Airport staff are confirming each step.

People would also be more compliant in this situation too.

I just wannna get home......

While they may switch it off afterwards , the % should be very small.

Even if 80/20 rule ,applies here, well 80% is better than 50% .

Personally I think the 90% will be too lazy to bother is more likely.

Using a bit of psychology.

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debo

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#2454874 5-Apr-2020 11:07

frankv:

spaceknight: I find it bizarre that turning on the mobile GPS tracking is voluntary in New Zealand for people arriving from overseas. In some countries it's mandatory.

Making it mandatory is nonsense. If it was mandatory, you would just leave your phone at home whenever you went out. Or are millenials so welded to their phones that this wouldn't be an option for them?

It makes much more sense to include the people in the decision-making than to take the authoritarian big brother approach.

If you say to people that we would like to track you, to warn if you have come into contact with someone likely to have covid-19, you'll have better buy-in. If you start out by waving the big stick, people's focus will be on avoiding the stick, not the purpose for you waving it.

The app can call up to see if the phone is on you. A lot easier then sending a police officer over. You could easily use AI to checkthe image from the front facing camera matches the passport.

Big brother? You just gave customs you address where you are staying. How is enforcing quarantine in any way related to big brother?

Tinkerisk

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#2454876 5-Apr-2020 11:14

dejadeadnz:

Tinkerisk:

We gave them loads of masks when needed the most and in return we can now buy scraps that have become scarce! We will remember it. Those who have friends like that don't need enemies.

You should not be denigrating a big population of people as though it's some big, monolithic group. Feel free to be angry about the situation but don't be a dick.

I think it is PC just to state experienced facts and there was no question that not everyone was meant. One could now philosophize for each of their businesses about what is more important: PC or the security of people and then I only know one answer, which unfortunately then affects every business. If their system doesn't clean itself, I do it as a customer - anything that speaks against it? Ethics & Compliance isn't for others only.

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet.
Firewalls do NOT stop dragons.
In effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is.

tdgeek

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#2454882 5-Apr-2020 11:23

iamaelephant:
tdgeek:

I am blindlingly aware of that. Blindingly, but thanks for the upskill. Existing citizens that have the virus, which is 950, less 127 recovered, have the virus. They are in lockdown. Do we need to quarantine them? They are in the same lockdown as you and I and any Kiwis that arrived at the airport. This 823 has a higher risk than a sample 823 travellers disembarking aircraft, as the 823 are 100% infected, the 823 sample travellers, a percentage will be.

So no, that doesn't stand up. Not unless we transport all the 823 known infections to a quarantine facility, so that we are protected o the same lines as your suggestion for the travellers.

You didn't ask if we should monitor existing positive cases as closely as incoming travelers (we absolutely should). You asked if we should monitor "existing citizens". So no, I guess you're not asking in good faith.

You need to get off the good faith bandwagon. Im just posting my opinions as are all of us

EDIT As to existing citizens, we have seen how unreliable they are. We have many clusters, so its clear that a number dont practice any measures. Pre and post lockdown.

gchiu

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#2454886 5-Apr-2020 11:27

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120825454/coronavirus-surfers-continue-to-ride-the-waves-despite-new-lockdown-rules

Where's Crusher Collins when you need her?

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