2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2454935 5-Apr-2020 12:18

neb: That's the same supply-chain problems that electronics people have been dealing with for a decade or more when dealing with Chinese-made electronics, if you can do a cheap fake of something or cut out safety/reliability features to save cost it'll be done. It'll be totally bargain-priced, but also crap - google "chinesium". So you need to either buy directly from a known-good vendor and supplier (e.g. for power supplies Meanwell via Element14/Farnell) or field-qualify anything that's shipped to you.

Thanks, I'm familiar with that. There are high qual manufacturer.

Guys, I don't talk about Alibaba, ebay or something like that. I talk about a huge order in the range of 5 Mill. masks arranged by the German military on behalf of the health authorities. Not all batches are affected by quality issues - but how can you trust from one mask ok to another not ok? I mean, it's personal protection stuff - not cheap RGB thingies. The samples were ok, but the delivery later on?

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet.
Firewalls do NOT stop dragons.
In effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is.

traderstu

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#2454950 5-Apr-2020 12:35

tdgeek:

freitasm:

You are wrong and here is the evidence.

Section 70(1)(f) Health Act Order:

Thanks. I thought as much after posting, but the article I read was also post the notice. Good to know.

The police have updated their operational guidelines here.

frednz

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#2454951 5-Apr-2020 12:37

tdgeek:

frednz:

As long as the Police order them out of the sea, let the surfers argue later if they wish whether it's strictly lawful or not. Now isn't the time for legal niceties, we are at war whether we like it or not!

I personally agree, but the law is the law, it has to be done lawfully. We dont live in a Police State.

https://covid19.govt.nz/help-and-advice/for-everyone/staying-at-home/

From the above:

The Government has asked all people in New Zealand to stay at home to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

As long as you're not unwell, you can leave your house to:

access essential services, like buying groceries, or going to a bank or pharmacy
go to work if you work for an essential service
go for a walk, or exercise and enjoy nature.

You can use your own transport means like a car or bike when you need to access essential services.

Now, if you own a bike, for example, should it be used only when you need to access essential services? It says above that you can leave your house to go for a walk, or exercise and enjoy nature.

We know a couple of cyclists who are still biking around much as they have before, mainly for exercise and covering 20 or 30 kms per day. It doesn't say above that you can only walk from your house to get your exercise.

So, if the Police stop a cyclist and say he has travelled too far from his home, then the cyclist should just accept this and do what he's told even though he thinks biking up to 10 or 15kms each way from his home is still keeping fairly "local".

In other words, the Police have to use their judgment all the time for the greater good, and although cyclists, for example, may not always like this, they should just do as the Police ask them.

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#2454952 5-Apr-2020 12:40

iamaelephant:
Although Trump is undermining the message somewhat

That's Trump's great strength, his answer to any simple question is, at various times, { Yes, No, Maybe, Obama did it, the Democrats did it, it's fake news, it's the deep state, I've been saying that all along, I've never said that } and then his supporters pick the one that's right and proclaim him a brilliant leader.

freitasm

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#2454953 5-Apr-2020 12:45

frednz:

https://covid19.govt.nz/help-and-advice/for-everyone/staying-at-home/

From the above:

The Government has asked all people in New Zealand to stay at home to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

As long as you're not unwell, you can leave your house to:

access essential services, like buying groceries, or going to a bank or pharmacy
go to work if you work for an essential service
go for a walk, or exercise and enjoy nature.
You can use your own transport means like a car or bike when you need to access essential services.

Now, if you own a bike, for example, should it be used only when you need to access essential services? It says above that you can leave your house to go for a walk, or exercise and enjoy nature.

We know a couple of cyclists who are still biking around much as they have before, mainly for exercise and covering 20 or 30 kms per day. It doesn't say above that you can only walk from your house to get your exercise.

So, if the Police stop a cyclist and say he has travelled too far from his home, then the cyclist should just accept this and do what he's told even though he thinks biking up to 10 or 15kms each way from his home is still keeping fairly "local".

In other words, the Police have to use their judgment all the time for the greater good, and although cyclists, for example, may not always like this, they should just do as the Police ask them.

And yet, from the health order:

"e. a person leaving their residence for the purpose of exercise or other recreation if-
i. is done in an outdoor place that can be readily accessed from their residence;"

I would say 30km is not readily accessed from their residence.

People need to stop being stupid and try to find loopholes. Stay home. Go out for a walk. Go cycling around the block. 30 km is not "readily accessed".

Don't be stupid people.

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#2454954 5-Apr-2020 12:46

Meanwhile, The NHS workers wearing bin bags as protection.

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#2454956 5-Apr-2020 12:54

And a different type of lockdown - the Dutch Lockdown.

Having shunned the stricter measures of neighbouring states the government has pursued an "intelligent" or "targeted" lockdown. It wants to cushion the social, economic and psychological costs of social isolation and make the eventual return to normality more manageable.

My local florist, ironmonger, delicatessen, bakery and toy store are still serving customers. Posters on the door and sticky tape on the floor encourage people to give each other space. Staff at the tills wear surgical gloves.

Only those businesses that require touching, like hairdressers, beauticians and red light brothels, have been forced to cease trading.

Schools, nurseries and universities are closed until at least 28 April.

Bars, restaurants and cannabis cafes are shut, although they seem to be doing a roaring trade in takeaways.

"We think we're cool-headed," explained Dr Louise van Schaik of the Clingendael Institute of International Relations. "We don't want to overreact, to lock up everybody in their houses. And it's easier to keep the generations apart here, because grandpa and grandma don't live at home with their children."

People have been advised to stay at home, but you can go out if you are unable to work from home, or have to grab groceries or fresh air, as long as you maintain 1.5m (5ft) social distance.

It helps that the Dutch appear to be broadly compliant. One survey suggested 99% of people kept their distance and 93% stayed at home as much as possible.

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#2454957 5-Apr-2020 12:54

Zepanda66: I noticed PM Jacinda Ardern will be speaking at 1pm alongside Bloomfield at the MoH update. Is this a first? ...

No, not a first. Happened when the first death was announced. So possibly ... ?

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#2454959 5-Apr-2020 12:56

DS248:

Zepanda66: I noticed PM Jacinda Ardern will be speaking at 1pm alongside Bloomfield at the MoH update. Is this a first? ...

No, not a first. Happened when the first death was announced. So possibly ... ?

The government is following a schedule from last week, with Bloomfield doing some of the updates and the PM doing others.

All COVID-19 updates are transcribed here.

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#2454960 5-Apr-2020 12:56

freitasm:

frednz:

https://covid19.govt.nz/help-and-advice/for-everyone/staying-at-home/

From the above:

The Government has asked all people in New Zealand to stay at home to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

As long as you're not unwell, you can leave your house to:

access essential services, like buying groceries, or going to a bank or pharmacy
go to work if you work for an essential service
go for a walk, or exercise and enjoy nature.
You can use your own transport means like a car or bike when you need to access essential services.

Now, if you own a bike, for example, should it be used only when you need to access essential services? It says above that you can leave your house to go for a walk, or exercise and enjoy nature.

We know a couple of cyclists who are still biking around much as they have before, mainly for exercise and covering 20 or 30 kms per day. It doesn't say above that you can only walk from your house to get your exercise.

So, if the Police stop a cyclist and say he has travelled too far from his home, then the cyclist should just accept this and do what he's told even though he thinks biking up to 10 or 15kms each way from his home is still keeping fairly "local".

In other words, the Police have to use their judgment all the time for the greater good, and although cyclists, for example, may not always like this, they should just do as the Police ask them.

And yet, from the health order:

"e. a person leaving their residence for the purpose of exercise or other recreation if-
i. is done in an outdoor place that can be readily accessed from their residence;"

I would say 30km is not readily accessed from their residence.

People need to stop being stupid and try to find loopholes. Stay home. Go out for a walk. Go cycling around the block. 30 km is not "readily accessed".

Don't be stupid people.

I agree entirely, but in the example I gave, people were usually cycling about 10kms each way from home. The point I'm making is that any laws or rules are always subject to interpretation and I don't think that the terms "local" or "readily accessed" have been defined more precisely in law by specifying a maximum number of kilometres that you can travel from home.

So, although these terms haven't been precisely defined in law, I agree that cyclists etc shouldn't be stupid and shouldn't argue with the Police when they are stopped. But my friends were certainly arguing with me when I told them that they should only cycle up to 5kms from home, so I advised them not to argue this with Police if they were stopped!

neb

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#2454966 5-Apr-2020 13:04

Maybe we could split this discussion off into a new one, Monday morning quarterbacks, where all the world-famous multidisciplinary experts in epidemiology, medicine, economics, and international trade relations posting here could tell everyone how much better everything would have been handled if only they had been running things at the time.

It's getting really tedious wading through pages and pages of whining just to try find the on-topic posts. If you're not engaged in being part of the solution, you're actually just part of the problem. STFU and stop whining. There'll be plenty of time for recriminations after this is all over.

Preferably in a different thread that we can all ignore.

Dell

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neb

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#2454967 5-Apr-2020 13:10

frankv:
Or are millenials so welded to their phones that this wouldn't be an option for them?

That's a trick question, right?

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#2454969 5-Apr-2020 13:11

Like your post two before to the one above?

Edit: Referencing the rant so the post before that.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2454971 5-Apr-2020 13:17

I appreciate our Prime Minister fronting these covid updates. It's good to hear straight from her what activities the government are doing during this time.

freitasm

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#2454972 5-Apr-2020 13:18

Love the mention of IDIOTS.

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