2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2456315 7-Apr-2020 10:05

freitasm:
@JaseNZ:

The database of companies taking up the subsidy has been named has anybody got the link buggered if I can find it.

https://services.workandincome.govt.nz/eps/search

I'm not fully sure I agree with or quite understand why this data is publicly available. I would have thought it to be quite the privacy breach - we don't have a searchable database publicly available for those individuals on the unemployment benefit, isn't this akin to the same thing?

freitasm

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#2456317 7-Apr-2020 10:07

Privacy rights are for people, not company. This is my money - your money and we have the right to know which companies are asking for it.

We might even spot cases of companies that layoff employees but ask for money anyway.

I think it's the right thing to do.

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gehenna

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#2456318 7-Apr-2020 10:08

It's not about individuals. It's about organisation accountability. So an employee can see if the org has taken the subsidy, and question why it hasn't been passed through to the employee if they haven't seen it, or if they've been told to do something different (e.g. take unpaid leave)

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#2456320 7-Apr-2020 10:10

Fred99:

Boris Johnson is now in ICU, according to BBC

Has deputised Dominic Raab.

Apart from the tragic aspect, there is something historically ironic about this. It could be a Shakespeare play.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2456329 7-Apr-2020 10:15

Rikkitic:

Fred99:

Boris Johnson is now in ICU, according to BBC

Has deputised Dominic Raab.

Apart from the tragic aspect, there is something historically ironic about this. It could be a Shakespeare play.

I'm sure this wasn't how he saw the whole herd immunity thing playing out...

MikeB4

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#2456330 7-Apr-2020 10:16

I was watching a video of the British MPs arriving at 10 Downing Street to discuss the Boris Johnson issue, do they not have video conferencing in the UK. None wearing protection and not observing social distancing. Makes me wonder how many in the British Parliament are infected. The UK could be in for a major political and constitutional crisis all the way up to the Head of State. Boris Johnson has admitted he continued to shake hands will into the outbreak including when visiting hospitals.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2456331 7-Apr-2020 10:18

Ge0rge:

I'm not fully sure I agree with or quite understand why this data is publicly available. I would have thought it to be quite the privacy breach - we don't have a searchable database publicly available for those individuals on the unemployment benefit, isn't this akin to the same thing?

Simple answers: Privacy Act covers natural persons only and not companies. So that gets rid of most of the questions around privacy already. As for people who are sole traders, the right to privacy under the PA is not absolute. The reason why we don't publicise recipients of "normal" benefits is that there's usually a lot of unnecessary stigma attached to being a recipient (which is stupid but that's a topic for another day). In this case, the cause of the payout are circumstances which are extraordinary and given the very large sums expended, the very quick payout (and by extension limited fraud controls), this is necessary to ensure that businesses don't take advantage of the subsidy regime.

ezbee

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#2456340 7-Apr-2020 10:31

cshwone,

I agree the information on location of cases and clusters is muddled and uneven.

The Covid19 webpage uses very vague terms like a 'workplace', or 'event' ,we have to guess.
Then just the DHB for >10 clusters, and totals for DHBs, some of which are huge geographies.

We can infer a few from the info in the media , but I gather privacy is an obstacle to more open information.
This is an obstacle to contact tracing as you eliminate the possibility of potential contacts contacting you .
Making it all hard graft and up to memories of the known contacts on who they might have contacted.

For looking to relax lock-down by region.

Northland may have felt they were on track for this till one case turns up at Kaikohe New World.
Good they released the detail of this for people to come forward.

Interestingly enough a quick look at the cases data on the Covid19 web , Northland is not mentioned ?
Slow update, or detail elsewhere on site. ?

But we have a lot of these 1 case here and there we know nothing of specific town/location ,and clusters that are not famous.

I don't know what other countries do,.

All the best Pete.

( Edit correcting for Kaikohe New World Sorry )

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#2456345 7-Apr-2020 10:42

MikeB4:

I was watching a video of the British MPs arriving at 10 Downing Street to discuss the Boris Johnson issue, do they not have video conferencing in the UK. None wearing protection and not observing social distancing. Makes me wonder how many in the British Parliament are infected. The UK could be in for a major political and constitutional crisis all the way up to the Head of State. Boris Johnson has admitted he continued to shake hands will into the outbreak including when visiting hospitals.

Don't worry the Prince of Wales has possibly developed immunity, he's one blood test away from ruling, as I'm sure Her Majesty must have had the slightest flashes of considering abdication upon hearing the news.

Geektastic

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#2456347 7-Apr-2020 10:49

freitasm:

Privacy rights are for people, not company. This is my money - your money and we have the right to know which companies are asking for it.

We might even spot cases of companies that layoff employees but ask for money anyway.

I think it's the right thing to do.

It is where employees exist so that they can see whether their firm is passing on money as appropriate.

I read one report that said that self-employed people would also be listed and that I would perhaps have more concern about, since there are no other employees involved.

tdgeek

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#2456349 7-Apr-2020 10:50

ezbee:

cshwone,

I agree the information on location of cases and clusters is muddled and uneven.

The Covid19 webpage uses very vague terms like a 'workplace', or 'event' ,we have to guess.
Then just the DHB for >10 clusters, and totals for DHBs, some of which are huge geographies.

We can infer a few from the info in the media , but I gather privacy is an obstacle to more open information.
This is an obstacle to contact tracing as you eliminate the possibility of potential contacts contacting you .
Making it all hard graft and up to memories of the known contacts on who they might have contacted.

For looking to relax lock-down by region.

Northland may have felt they were on track for this till one case turns up at Kaikohe New World.
Good they released the detail of this for people to come forward.

Interestingly enough a quick look at the cases data on the Covid19 web , Northland is not mentioned ?
Slow update, or detail elsewhere on site. ?

But we have a lot of these 1 case here and there we know nothing of specific town/location ,and clusters that are not famous.

I don't know what other countries do,.

All the best Pete.

( Edit correcting for Kaikohe New World Sorry )

I feel that will change. Early on we had cases each day, with no idea about how many unknown cases there are, whuch makes what we do know, of not much use. Plus the effect of incoming travellers is very high. As we go on we can see more details, and a possibility that the case count is fairly representaitive, but again, we are not sure

As we dont now have to worry about importing cases, and that CT will determine the alert levels, I think we will see more detail. We must do, as the public needs to see "proof" that you are now stuck in level 4, and "proof" that its better now in your area so dont feel overly worried. They do tell us what company etc the cluster is in, but that could be sooner

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frankv

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#2456350 7-Apr-2020 10:51

cshwone:

Question,

There is plenty of information around showing where in the country CV-19 cases are located but what I can't find is a representation or information on where there are currently active cases as opposed to now historical data.

For example the Wairarapa has seen 8 cases - but how many of these are currently active cases?

I suspect that this data (in conjunction with a large "no cases" buffer) is what could be used to determine the lifting of restrictions area by area.

Anyone seen this?

I guess we can assume that any case reported (say) 2 weeks ago is no longer active. Which would mean that only one confirmed case in the Wairarapa reported 31/3/20 is still active, and will be for another week. Plus 2 probables reported 2/4/20, active until 16/4/20 unless cleared.

tripp

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#2456356 7-Apr-2020 11:07

Geektastic:

freitasm:

Privacy rights are for people, not company. This is my money - your money and we have the right to know which companies are asking for it.

We might even spot cases of companies that layoff employees but ask for money anyway.

I think it's the right thing to do.

It is where employees exist so that they can see whether their firm is passing on money as appropriate.

I read one report that said that self-employed people would also be listed and that I would perhaps have more concern about, since there are no other employees involved.

I got an email the other day saying "We will be publishing the names of Sole Traders and Contractors/Self-Employed payees in due course."

I am a little funny about that part, I am not overly sure I like it but did sign the bit of paper saying it will happen. I do agree tax payers have the right to know but listing a company vs someones private name is a little different.

PolicyGuy

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#2456360 7-Apr-2020 11:20

Fred99:

Boris Johnson is now in ICU, according to BBC

Has deputised Dominic Raab.

Statistically, what are Boris Johnson's survival chances now he's in ICU? 50/50? Better? Worse?

If he survives he is unlikely to be fit to be "PM" for months you would think.

So the Brits have another political crisis on top of Brexit & Covid as most of the likely candidates have retired / been expelled as a result of Brexit :-(

Only seven UK Prime Ministers have died in office, the most recent in 1865

The first UK Prime Minister to die in office was Lord Wilmington, who died on 2 July 1743, aged 70.

One was assassinated - Spencer Perceval, was assassinated by John Bellingham on 11 May 1812, aged 49

The UK has had fifty-five Prime Ministers, including Boris Johnson, since 1721.

So statistically speaking, a UK PM has a 7 in 54 (~13%) chance of dying in office - except none since 1865, so statistics aren't much help!

[facts courtesy Wikipedia]

Edit: typo

iamaelephant

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#2456361 7-Apr-2020 11:26

The data on that is still patchy, but I read through a number of articles and it seems like somewhere around 50% of patients who make it to the ICU succumb to the disease. Here's an example of an article

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/28/coronavirus-intensive-care-uk-patients-50-per-cent-survival-rate

Data from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC) showed that of 165 patients treated in critical care in England, Wales and Northern Ireland since the end of February, 79 died, while 86 survived and were discharged. The figures were taken from an audit of 775 people who have been or are in critical care with the disease, across 285 intensive care units. The remaining 610 patients continue to receive intensive care.

But I don't think there are firm numbers yet.

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