2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2481377 11-May-2020 17:09

neb:

freitasm:

How would you prevent someone boarding from the San Francisco to Narita, staying a couple of days in Tokio and flying to New Zealand? With a forced quarantine in each stopover?

You'd see that they'd come from SFO originally and not allow them to board the NZ flight at Narita. Or at least require x weeks quarantine and two negative Covid19 tests, or whatever conditions you want to impose, before they can continue to NZ.

You seen to be ignoring the creativity of some people. Someone could buy a ticket on Delta Airlines SFO - NRT and a separate ticket for next day on Air NZ NRT - AKL. Unless the Japanese keep tight control of entries and exits on our behalf we would have to make sure NZ Immigration systems could track a passenger's travel even on different routes before jumping on the last leg of the trip.

Do you think any country's systems are there yet?

The way around would to only allow people on non-NZ passports to fly in if they have evidence of a 14 day quarantine on the last leg of the trip before flying to NZ and even so I wouldn't trust an American coming to NZ to be virus-free.

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neb

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#2481383 11-May-2020 17:13

freitasm:
You seen to be ignoring the creativity of some people. Someone could buy a ticket on Delta Airlines SFO - NRT and a separate ticket for next day on Air NZ NRT - AKL.

It's not the ticket you're tracking, it's the passport. Unless they've got multiple passports and are really clever in switching them - most countries require that you leave on the same passport you came in on - you're going to be tracked via that. What they could do is leave the US on a US passport (no special checks or Visa requirements) and then enter and leave Japan on a Japanese passport (again, no visa) and continue to NZ, but that's getting into some pretty odd corner cases.

nzkiwiman

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#2481407 11-May-2020 17:40

Good to see that there is a limit of 10 people in gatherings and that bars will open later on (though many may decide it is not worth it opening for so few)

Confused about the rules for cafes and stores that have done trading via contactless methods during Level 3; are they allowed to have people in store at Level 2, or do they continue to operate as they have during Level 3?

TeaLeaf

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#2481412 11-May-2020 17:41

Did anything come of this idea people had to entice work that has shut down overseas (ie Silicon valley) and Unis etc to come to NZ, serve the 2 weeks quarantine of course. A working/study Hiatus if you will. A perfect chance for NZ to finally get its teeth into 1st world economies and business not just a tourism of litter scattered trails/beaches or selling lamb (not against either but having worked in ecology and seen some of our remote corners it aint 100% pure thats for sure).

Could have been a real GDP winner when Tourism is down to Domestic and we are handing out so much more money now than normal unemployment rates.

The one thing I wish NZ would change also is to keep smart people in certain industries with PHDs. I know so many through Otago who have wanted to stay in NZ and have had to leave. Providing the industry need is there, why would we not keep them. But thats another issue.

I think Labour has done a much better job of issues in the first term than National would have, and I was a national voter until the GFC property bail out which just saw Kiwis throw 36% inflation into the property market over the last 12 years.

Ardern has really blossomed and I think her team taking sensible steps that have sound reasoning behind them with this virus have been conveyed throughout the process. Sure some learning curves, ie no swimming or boating (which sucked but oh well). I think NZ has handled this very well and feel proud looking after each other, whether you are young and paying fiscal tax derived pension for Millionaire boomers at higher risk of actually being in a higher mortality rate or not.

DS248

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#2481415 11-May-2020 17:45

neb:
DS248:

Gold standard?

As an illustration of what might actually be gold standard, the table below lists (some of the) published details for the last 30 cases in Hong Kong (not that they use the term 'gold standard').

Vietnam is similar, they've published a list of each infected person, location, age, gender, and what happened to them. It was kind of odd reading about it, Country X would say "325 new cases, 87 critical" and Vietnam would say "2 new cases, one a 41-year old woman from Haiphong who likes cats and cooks a mean bun cha, the other a 72-year old man from Da Nang, retired teacher who writes poetry in the evenings", they had so few cases that each one was individually noted. ... .

Yes, I was thinking of posting an example case detail for HK, Vietnam & Taiwan. But you have covered Vietnam off well.

TeaLeaf

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#2481420 11-May-2020 17:53

freitasm:

The way around would to only allow people on non-NZ passports to fly in if they have evidence of a 14 day quarantine on the last leg of the trip before flying to NZ and even so I wouldn't trust an American coming to NZ to be virus-free.

Yep and even then it seems even NZ leaves the tests until its too late ie the day 15 result lady recently. Who do you trust etc....

And is it even proven its 14 days, my understanding is they dont actually know how long being contagious can last with this virus. Then there are the unknowns/asymptomatic like the entire 300 in a US meat works. That just seems too coincidental for this virus not to have some sneaky features we just dont know about yet.

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ezbee

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#2481430 11-May-2020 18:01

Oh my....

Just on Radio NZ checkpoint ( about 5.13 ).
One of the imported cases , a woman who has been isolated in prison for 10days because she refused testing.
( Im guessing that at the Airport they had strong reson to suspect test was needed )
Once she appeared in court and accepted test she was bailed on strict conditions.
Prison staff used full PPE and isolated cell has been deep cleaned.

If this one had not been caught would they have skipped quaranteen given slightest chance ?
Then 1 case becomes, 35, 40, 80 or more.
Especially in Lockdown ending craziness.

You can make sensible rules for sensible people to all get through this fine, get to joining International bubbles to give the economy a spark, and then you have these you have to account for.

Oblivian

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#2481432 11-May-2020 18:02

nzkiwiman:

Good to see that there is a limit of 10 people in gatherings and that bars will open later on (though many may decide it is not worth it opening for so few)

Confused about the rules for cafes and stores that have done trading via contactless methods during Level 3; are they allowed to have people in store at Level 2, or do they continue to operate as they have during Level 3?

Store size + keeping 2m personal/1m table requirement means some may remain pretty much as is. But you can have people in store and sit at a table separated from others to drink it if they can manage it, yes.

(single server per table.. yes/no/maybe)

mattwnz

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#2481439 11-May-2020 18:11

nzkiwiman:

Good to see that there is a limit of 10 people in gatherings and that bars will open later on (though many may decide it is not worth it opening for so few)

Confused about the rules for cafes and stores that have done trading via contactless methods during Level 3; are they allowed to have people in store at Level 2, or do they continue to operate as they have during Level 3?

The bars one is odd. Yes bars have shown to cause clusters in NZ and in South Korea recently, but so has a school, which caused one of the biggest ones. Is it correct that there isn't any social distancing of students now under level 2?

With bars, the MOH recommended 2 weeks delay, but instead it is about 10 days delay, and there wasn't a clear explanation as to why they didn't just do two weeks IMO.

I wonder how many bars will start serving meals at a table, such as a pie, so they can open as a restaurant, or is something preventing that?. There alreay are going to have to have them seated. If there is a loophole, a kiwi will find it.

I see cinemas are going to reopen. I can't see how they are going to do very well, because new releases have been delayed and the US have stopped production.Plus who wants to go to the movies at the moment, and be in a room of strangers, and hearing the odd cough (which is normal)? Guessing people will have to be really spread out.
I remember my late grandma always telling me when I said I had been to see a movie at a cinema, that they were 'cesspits for germs'. She was alive at the time of the 1918 flu Pandemic, so I can now see why she had this opinion! Interesting how history repeats.

GV27

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#2481447 11-May-2020 18:37

mattwnz:

I wonder how many bars will start serving meals at a table, such as a pie, so they can open as a restaurant, or is something preventing that?. There alreay are going to have to have them seated. If there is a loophole, a kiwi will find it.

Hello I would like your blackboard special of one sausage roll and six jugs of Golden, thanks.

frankv

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#2481450 11-May-2020 18:46

freitasm: And controls in place for preventing people doing SFO - Japan - NZ just for the giggles. This would require a big change in systems and tracking.

And controls at Japan to avoid "clean" people from Japan or e.g. Taiwan mixing with, or even using facilities or aircraft used by, people from SFO.

The only way I can see that working is separate "clean" and "infected" terminals, perhaps even airfields. So perhaps NZ might allow US-origin aircraft to land at Ohakea or Whenuapai, the passengers whisked off for 2 weeks quarantine, whilst aircraft from "clean" places like Japan or Taiwan go to the regular airports.

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frankv

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#2481453 11-May-2020 18:52

freitasm:
How would you prevent someone boarding from the San Francisco to Narita, staying a couple of days in Tokio and flying to New Zealand? With a forced quarantine in each stopover?

I'd expect that Japan wouldn't allow this... it would be asking for another wave of infection. My view is that there would be "clean" countries and infected countries... any time you go from infected to clean, you do 14 days quarantine. Otherwise travel would be open.

kiwifidget

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#2481454 11-May-2020 18:57

No mention of a contact tracing app?

Perhaps this is the real reason for the 10pax limit.

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mattwnz

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#2481460 11-May-2020 19:36

kiwifidget:

No mention of a contact tracing app?

Perhaps this is the real reason for the 10pax limit.

Yes, it isn't good we don't have an app, when Australia have managed to get their one up and running.

THE release of the COVID19 tracing app is a great Australian initiative using digital Bluetooth technology to turbo charge the speed and ease of tracing contacts of newly diagnosed cases.

https://www.camdencourier.com.au/story/6753123/covid-tracing-app-will-be-a-game-changer/

ockel

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#2481468 11-May-2020 19:58

So now we finally have clarity on the timing of the extremely overdue Level 2 when is someone (especially local Mayors) going to have the discussion about trans-tasman travel?

Queensland is a perfect case in point. It has the virus under control (fewer cases, fewer deaths, fewer active cases for a similar population size), we have the virus under control, ScoMo has passed the travel decision to a state level..... when is our absent Minister for Tourism or our Minister for Foreign Affairs going to engage with the Queensland Premier on travel - for the sakes of both our nations?

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