2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2506764 17-Jun-2020 15:42

GV27:

We don't know if that is true yet or not. Up to MOH or JA to confirm but I assume it is being followed-up on.

One of the reasons these things get said in Parliament is that MPs can't really get into any trouble for saying them. Making the claim outside of parliament is another matter.

I agree but if it is true and the minster that has bought the allegations is a complete cock for not reporting it immediately.

There would be a lot of fact checking going on right now I bet.

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meesham

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#2506766 17-Jun-2020 15:43

GV27:

One of the reasons these things get said in Parliament is that MPs can't really get into any trouble for saying them. Making the claim outside of parliament is another matter.

Exactly this, it's been said with parliamentary privilege. Why haven't the person who knew about this contacted the MoH so those contacts can be tracked down as soon as possible, instead they've gone to the opposition health spokesperson?

FineWine

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#2506770 17-Jun-2020 15:49

concordnz: @FineWine - you got the names reversed on the Quotes referenced in your post #2506624
I didn't say the 1st quote & I did say the 2nd one.

Corrected - apologies

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

neb

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#2506776 17-Jun-2020 15:51

meesham:
The silver lining in all of this ...

That's something I've been thinking about as well, given the s**t show of quarantine and dysfunctional contact tracing the MoH needed a sharp slap across the face to make them get their act together, and it's better to have it happen via this hopefully-contained event than something bigger that would lead to CT/lockdowns/whatever. So given that it was something that was needed in order to fix a dysfunctional system it's better to have just this as the slap than to have a major outbreak as the slap.

ezbee

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#2506779 17-Jun-2020 15:58

Oh the story on the 2 on compassionate release story continues to grow, and a timely reminder.

Well at least the good things to come out of this are a more detailed examination of boarder management before a 'party hard harry' gets out.
Past compassionate releases will be reviewed as well.
The 100's that are being traced would have had to be anyway, as its all the people in contact at hotel and air travel here.

This has identified the importance to treat the 'not proven to be covid free' with more care , until combination of testing and isolation allows you to prove they are clear.
The test is not a proof alone. False Negatives and will not detect the virus very early in infection when there is too little virus anyway.
Testing does serve to allow you to separate out most of the contagious for tighter isolation , its not a virus free passport.
Test on arrival, 14 Day isolation , and Test on release, that gives you high confidence.

There has been a lot of pressure to dilute our isolation and quarantine measures, so this has been timely as ombudsman seeks to inspect our facilities to see if they are humane.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/chief-ombudsman-begin-inspecting-nzs-covid-19-quarantine-facilities

Some have talked up that 14 days living cost free in a hotel on the taxpayer is like being in prison, really !.
There are many circumstances where you might end up mostly confined to bed as a result of injury and other viruses.
In the context of the 10's thousands of days of your life really its a blip.
Hopefully some sense in light of the consequences of dilution of our measures will prevail.

Now as a reminder of the direct cost to the economy of gettign this wrong,
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-starts-intensive-testing-of-imported-meat-for-coronavirus

So what would happen if we did a Brasil, UK or USA , and then this starts , so we would have no tourism and no primary produce income.
What an economy that would be.At the moment our produce can be a premium as healthiest in the world.
For the moment, hopefully we remain lucky.

vexxxboy

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#2506791 17-Jun-2020 16:07

That Mp is a dick, he is putting politics ahead of what he should have done .He knows who was hugged and kissed but he wants to keep it a secret, if it is true then he is just as bad as the 2 woman . He should tell who it was so they can be tested and contacts traced.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#2506793 17-Jun-2020 16:12

vexxxboy:

That Mp is a dick, he is putting politics ahead of what he should have done .He knows who was hugged and kissed but he wants to keep it a secret, if it is true then he is just as bad as the 2 woman . He should tell who it was so they can be tested and contacts traced.

Yup and if true will be seen for what it is on his part of just political grandstanding and gain what a complete cock.

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mattwnz

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#2506797 17-Jun-2020 16:21

neb:
meesham:

The silver lining in all of this ...

That's something I've been thinking about as well, given the s**t show of quarantine and dysfunctional contact tracing the MoH needed a sharp slap across the face to make them get their act together, and it's better to have it happen via this hopefully-contained event than something bigger that would lead to CT/lockdowns/whatever. So given that it was something that was needed in order to fix a dysfunctional system it's better to have just this as the slap than to have a major outbreak as the slap.

The only issue is we don't yet know if there haven't been any other leaks in the system, that may oly be found out if cases pop up in the community. That is why continued significant testing is still very important, because the virus can sneak in any holes at the border. As Trump said today, the cases have increased because they have been doing more testing.

But it is better that they sort things out earlier than later. We already had leaks with the self isolation system with some people who didn't follow requirements, and this managed isolation system was supposed to make the system water tight at the border.

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#2506798 17-Jun-2020 16:25

JaseNZ:

concordnz: It's interesting that there is claims on Stuff.
That the women also lied about going straight to Wellington without stopping.
(There is allegations in Parliament they got lost & headed north & another relative went & found them & pointed them in the right direction (after getting a kiss & cuddle from them).

I wonder what else these two women have lied to officials about.....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121857737/coronavirus-national-mp-claims-in-parliament-women-with-covid-got-lost-and-stopped-on-drive-from-auckland-to-wellington

Told ya the straight drive without interaction was complete B/S

It can be done - I have done it. It would not be a common choice though.

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#2506801 17-Jun-2020 16:30

Geektastic:

It can be done - I have done it. It would not be a common choice though.

when i was young (25) i drove 13.5 hrs straight (770km acc to google maps) with one stop for fuel and toilet. that's it.

i could not do that now.

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#2506816 17-Jun-2020 16:55

Here is a very interesting article:

Asymptomatic Infection: Clearing up Confusion. Dr. Sanjay Gupta's coronavirus podcast for June 16
By CNN staff
Updated 1801 GMT (0201 HKT) June 16, 2020

I wish some in our government bureaucracy's including our elected representatives, would read it or at least understand the three definitions under the "asymptomatic umbrella":

- asymptomatic infection
- pre-symptomatic infection
- paucisymptomatic infection

Reading the article I learnt a lot 🎓

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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vexxxboy

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#2506859 17-Jun-2020 17:08

FineWine:

Here is a very interesting article:

Asymptomatic Infection: Clearing up Confusion. Dr. Sanjay Gupta's coronavirus podcast for June 16
By CNN staff
Updated 1801 GMT (0201 HKT) June 16, 2020

I wish some in our government bureaucracy's including our elected representatives, would read it or at least understand the three definitions under the "asymptomatic umbrella":

- asymptomatic infection
- pre-symptomatic infection
- paucisymptomatic infection

Reading the article I learnt a lot 🎓

Which is why the 14 days of isolation with a test on the third day and a test near the end is what NZ is meant to be doing which should cover all 3 infection types

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Handle9

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#2506861 17-Jun-2020 17:11

FineWine:
Here is a very interesting article:

Asymptomatic Infection: Clearing up Confusion. Dr. Sanjay Gupta's coronavirus podcast for June 16
By CNN staff
Updated 1801 GMT (0201 HKT) June 16, 2020

I wish some in our government bureaucracy's including our elected representatives, would read it or at least understand the three definitions under the "asymptomatic umbrella":

- asymptomatic infection
- pre-symptomatic infection
- paucisymptomatic infection

Reading the article I learnt a lot 🎓

I'm sure that no one in the public service understands anything about infections as everyone who works for a government department or organisation is an idiot.

Those pesky doctors and public health officials are all stupid.

/s

mattwnz

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#2506863 17-Jun-2020 17:15

vexxxboy:

FineWine:

Here is a very interesting article:

Asymptomatic Infection: Clearing up Confusion. Dr. Sanjay Gupta's coronavirus podcast for June 16
By CNN staff
Updated 1801 GMT (0201 HKT) June 16, 2020

I wish some in our government bureaucracy's including our elected representatives, would read it or at least understand the three definitions under the "asymptomatic umbrella":

- asymptomatic infection
- pre-symptomatic infection
- paucisymptomatic infection

Reading the article I learnt a lot 🎓

Which is why the 14 days of isolation with a test on the third day and a test near the end is what NZ is meant to be doing which should cover all 3 infection types

WE also have to remember that the test isn't 100% accurate, which is why quarantine is so important. . I recall that NZ's first case, they tested negative with 2 tests, and it wasn't until the 3rd test that they tested positive. I am not sure if the testing has improved since. But we certainly can't put all our faith in testing. Potentially these cases could have also tested negative on day 3, if the test came back with a false negative, and then they may not have been tested again until they were back in quarantine. Although I do wonder if they were released early on compassionate ground, or they were required to drive back to Auckland and go back into quarantine afterwards. It doesn't sound like it. This compassionate leave thing seems to be a potential major hole, as it is almost going back to the 'self isolation' model again. We just need 1 covid case to get through the border and into the community ,and we could end up with clusters in the thousands.

Fred99

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#2506874 17-Jun-2020 17:36

Handle9:
FineWine:

Here is a very interesting article:

Asymptomatic Infection: Clearing up Confusion. Dr. Sanjay Gupta's coronavirus podcast for June 16
By CNN staff
Updated 1801 GMT (0201 HKT) June 16, 2020

I wish some in our government bureaucracy's including our elected representatives, would read it or at least understand the three definitions under the "asymptomatic umbrella":

- asymptomatic infection
- pre-symptomatic infection
- paucisymptomatic infection

Reading the article I learnt a lot 🎓

I'm sure that no one in the public service understands anything about infections as everyone who works for a government department or organisation is an idiot.

Those pesky doctors and public health officials are all stupid.

/s

It's not something where subjective assessment of risk should create opportunity for mistakes. Doctors are humans and humans make mistakes. An appeal to emotion can cloud judgement. So if that's behind the the mistake (by doctor or other public servant) then the rules must change.

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