2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2509685 22-Jun-2020 12:43

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

It is a qualified right. We have a right, sure.

However, if we are carrying a deadly disease, I see no reason why that right should not be suspended in order to preserve the rights of the majority not to have that disease introduced. Get well wherever you are, THEN exercise your right. Rights have attendant responsibilities.

So NZ doesn't need border control or quarantine under that scenario? If its such a good idea the rest of the world will do the same....

Each country needs to take ownership, so NZ needs to do the same with its people.

Personally I do not see it that way.

You do not travel unless you're tested clear before flight (Emirates do that in 10 minutes pre boarding). Then you go in quarantine for 14 days on arrival. No more isolation: just enforced quarantine.

lxsw20

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#2509689 22-Jun-2020 12:49

duckDecoy:

lxsw20:

It isn't particularly nice to see people turning against their own countrymen. If you're an NZ citizen you have a right to come home.

I will stay in the UK while I have work over here, but if I lose that due to global recession or whatever. I'll be on the next flight to my homeland. Do you prefer I came back when lockdown started and gone on the dole?

I take your point, but how about we apply the same consideration that you did.

It's benefited you better to be in the UK for now so you're staying there, but if it no longer benefits you you would like to return. You put you first. Fine. But returning doesn't benefit NZ as it puts us at risk of a pandemic, so what's wrong with NZ putting NZ first (like you did). Seems fair to me.

If/ when I come back I go into 2 weeks quarantine, like everyone else that comes back in to NZ at the moment. So where is the risk to you?

DS248

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#2509702 22-Jun-2020 12:57

tdgeek:
GV27:

1pm announcement today - anyone picking an upswing in cases? We should be seeing at least 1.

I'd say so, yes. 1 or 2 or 3. I'm feeling we will see hardly any from Australia, they will be from elsewhere via or not Australia. AUS seems very low risk, elsewhere its a lot higher

Australia (other than Victoria) low risk.

duckDecoy

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#2509703 22-Jun-2020 12:58

lxsw20:

If/ when I come back I go into 2 weeks quarantine, like everyone else that comes back in to NZ at the moment. So where is the risk to you?

From what we are hearing, the risk is the quarantine process itself. NZ is starting to get a bit nervous about just how good it actually is, and whether its more of an illusion of quarantine. And the sentiment I am getting from the discussions I am having with friends etc is that it's not so much turning against the people returning, its more that we wish we could be nice but we know the price and the risk.

GV27

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#2509712 22-Jun-2020 13:12

Two new cases.

MikeB4

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#2509715 22-Jun-2020 13:23

GV27:

Two new cases.

That would only be surprising to the muppets running this train wreck.

lxsw20

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#2509716 22-Jun-2020 13:25

MikeB4:

GV27:

Two new cases.

That would only be surprising to the muppets running this train wreck.

There are going to be new cases at the border, it's as simple as that. I'm not sure why the part about cases being at the border and in isolation is left out. Doesn't spread quite as much panic I guess.

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DS248

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#2509717 22-Jun-2020 13:26

Looks like my 'other than Victoria' may have been a little ominous. One of the two new cases arrived on NZ124 from Melbourne.

Edit: Oops, just came via Melbourne - travelled from Pakistan. Would help if the individual case data indicated the originating source rather than the last transit location.

wellygary

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#2509718 22-Jun-2020 13:35

DS248:

Looks like my 'other than Victoria' may have been a little ominous. One of the two new cases arrived on NZ124 from Melbourne.

Edit: Oops, just came via Melbourne - travelled from Pakistan. Would help if the individual case data indicated the originating source rather than the last transit location.

Same flight from Doha and Melbourne as one of the earlier cases announced last week,

mattwnz

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#2509723 22-Jun-2020 13:40

duckDecoy:

lxsw20:

If/ when I come back I go into 2 weeks quarantine, like everyone else that comes back in to NZ at the moment. So where is the risk to you?

From what we are hearing, the risk is the quarantine process itself. NZ is starting to get a bit nervous about just how good it actually is, and whether its more of an illusion of quarantine. And the sentiment I am getting from the discussions I am having with friends etc is that it's not so much turning against the people returning, its more that we wish we could be nice but we know the price and the risk.

There also may be outlier cases that develop symptoms after 14 days, where those cases released from quarantine may then go back into the community. I understand it is rare but based on the large numbers returning I think it potentially could happen. Reducing the risk of that would require lengthening the quarantine period.

Also in cases where isolated people have been allowed to mix with people at different stages of stages of quarantine. Eg when some people transported by plane with other people in isolation but at different stages of isolation. Were they all required to restart their 14 day count?

mattwnz

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#2509741 22-Jun-2020 14:06

I am not a Hoskings fan, but he had made some good points IMO in his interview PM today .

Looks like due to the high number of people coming into NZ, they are now looking at campervans... in the middle of winter. That is less than ideal and difficult to manage isn't it?

Why isn't there coordination with airlines to control the quantity of people entering, so they can be managed properly, so we can continue to use hotels?

Also why aren't we requiring them to be tested first before boarding the plane, or even requiring self isolation for 14 days prior to leaving, like we required of film crews. This is also what some countries require.. Are these planes even physically distancing people now? We are level 1 inside the border, but are planes also operating under level 1 outside the border where this pandemic is occurring? I wonder if it is because the rules have been relaxed that planes are now able to now properly fill their aircrafts?

nzkiwiman

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#2509751 22-Jun-2020 14:42

I am glad to see that we are actually getting cases at the border; does this prove that until last week - what was expected to be done and we were being told was happening, just wasn't, or were the arrivals in the last ~3 weeks all safe and it just happens that this week we are seeing more people arriving from "hotspots" causing the issues that we are seeing.

Hopefully someone has a plan for the people in managed isolation for what they do with all those people when a case of COVID is found (like what has happened at the Novotel)

wellygary

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#2509753 22-Jun-2020 14:45

Any bubble with Australia is months away.... and may require a big step by NZ

....

"Victoria's Health Minister Jenny Mikakos says a total of 222 coronavirus cases in Victoria since the beginning of the outbreak are believed to be due to community transmission, an increase of 12 since yesterday.

That increase of 12 is the largest single-day increase in community transmission for more than two months.

A case is classed as community transmission if the person who tested positive is not a returned traveller from overseas or a close contact of an existing case."

"Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said the recent uptick in cases in Victoria should not come as a surprise, stressing that containment rather than elimination has always been Australia's strategy for managing the coronavirus pandemic"

https://www.theage.com.au/national/coronavirus-updates-live-cases-worldwide-almost-at-nine-million-australian-death-toll-stands-at-102-20200622-p554t7.html

KrazyKid

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#2509756 22-Jun-2020 14:54

mattwnz:

Looks like due to the high number of people coming into NZ, they are now looking at campervans... in the middle of winter. That is less than ideal and difficult to manage isn't it?

Why isn't there coordination with airlines to control the quantity of people entering, so they can be managed properly, so we can continue to use hotels?

Also why aren't we requiring them to be tested first before boarding the plane, or even requiring self isolation for 14 days prior to leaving, like we required of film crews. This is also what some countries require.. Are these planes even physically distancing people now? We are level 1 inside the border, but are planes also operating under level 1 outside the border where this pandemic is occurring? I wonder if it is because the rules have been relaxed that planes are now able to now properly fill their aircrafts?

Couple of thoughts on this - Cabinet was discussing increased numbers last week according to their minutes - so they are aware and working on it. There seems to be a lag in implementation vs increasing numbers as flights around the world are coming more available again.
It may well be worth a short term pause, but I suspect it is not as easy to set up as you think. It would be more than saying. OK that's the limit for today -we won't let any flights land after 11.47am today, cancel the rest of the scheduled departures. There are connection flights and other issues.
By the time that gets sorted we will have solved the short term quarantine space issues

NZ has plenty of hotels - we just need to configure them as quarantine facilities which takes a week or two I'd say. Queenstown springs to mind. Heck even here in Dunedin we have mothballed a couple of hotels we could use.

As for prior self isolation. I'd still want the 14 day isolation here in NZ. You couldn't trust it otherwise.
And testing before they leave is mostly pointless. It could save a few possible infections on a plane (who are quarantining anyway), but the tests are not reliable enough to be a reason to avoid quarantine upon arrival.

xlinknz

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#2509758 22-Jun-2020 14:59

mattwnz:

There also may be outlier cases that develop symptoms after 14 days, where those cases released from quarantine may then go back into the community. I understand it is rare but based on the large numbers returning I think it potentially could happen. Reducing the risk of that would require lengthening the quarantine period.

Also in cases where isolated people have been allowed to mix with people at different stages of stages of quarantine. Eg when some people transported by plane with other people in isolation but at different stages of isolation. Were they all required to restart their 14 day count?

Yes Covid incubation is possible after 14 days and that is why testing before exit of isolation/quarantine at 14 days should be required as will now be occurring. It annoying to me the DG of Health and the PM keep saying testing at day 14 is belts and braces as it implies it is desirable rather than necessary.

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