Removed a political post.

@GV27 next one you are blocked from posting in this sub-forum.

There might be some point to having some kind of enquiry that looked at the preparedness of the country and with the purpose of agreeing on a better pandemic response plan. The pandemic response plan that we had wasn't adequate - so a government had to "wing it".  There's a parallel with the EQC Act - that left government unprepared to deal with exactly what the Act was supposed to cover. It hadn't been revised for decades despite advice to successive government of flaws, the funding hadn't been increased to allow for increased cost of building, the government ended up in court fighting the private insurers they were supposed to be in partnership with etc. Was a bit of a shambles.

I'm typing this listening to David Seymour on the radio news, bleating about how come there wasn't a plan announced to go to a newly created "Level 2.5" months ago. It would be good if superficial sniping based in hindsight like that could be shut down before it starts.  There's a good reason for messaging using simple "alert levels", but there's a damned good reason to adapt those as needed in a constantly shifting dynamic pandemic model.

The time will come when we will need to examine how this all went and what we have learnt. The form of that enquiry may be a RC. Now is not the time to do this . It is for some time down the track.

mattwnz:

 

Masks wouldn't be required on any pubic transport, if the border with Auckland wasn't reopening in 15 minutes, and potentailly the rest of NZ could have dropped down to level 1.5, and all businesses outside Auckland could then operate as normal. Also potentially all aged care outisde Auckland could then also be open too, so people can see their relatives in lockdown in there. But opening the border with Auckland increases the risk for everyone, so that appears to be why level 2 for the rest of NZ wasn't dropped down, as you can't have two different parts of NZ in very different levels without a border . So IMO ferries are public transport, and people should therefore wear masks. Just because people are not required to, doesn't mean that people shouldn't. I am not sure if some people making the decision have been over thinking things. So much easier to just say, everyone wears mask in public spaces and in workplaces. Easy, and mass masking is what one of NZs top epidemiologists suggests too. The government are asking people outside Auckland to now wear masks from Monday, but they don't appear to have mandated it apart from public transport .But IMO it is a slippery slope and it is just a matter of time before mask wearing in public spaces will become normal, like it is overseas in Covid countries.

 

Should note that the Auckland border was never "closed", it was merely restricted. There were tens of thousands of people per day entering and leaving Auckland (by air and road) while it was in level 3.

The travel restrictions were always about reducing the odds of spread to the rest of NZ, rather than eliminating the risk.

Given this, the level 2 setting "The disease is contained, but the risk of community transmission remains" seems suitable for NZ outside of Auckland regardless of the removal of checkpoints on the roads out of Auckland last night.

It was never realistic to have a harsh (international style with 14 days managed isolation period) border to a NZ region. Impact on supply chains (most critically for food) would be highly problematic. On announcement there would be a rush of people returning home to their home region which would overwhelm any managed isolation capacity we could spin up.

As a side note, there are cases in outside of Auckland in the central north island, so it is not reasonable to assume the rest of the country is safe.

Regarding masks, I think not making mask wearing compulsory outside of public transport is a fairly smart move.

It will remove the drama associated with compulsory mask wearing seen in the USA and Aussie. People don't like being told what to do, but are fine if with stuff if they think it is their own decision. Means the say 0.5% of staunchly anti mask people in our population keep a low profile, avoid public transport and feel smug about not wearing when they are out in public. Sadly the alternative seems to be what we have seen offshore with video's of police arrests for this reason going viral, and anti-mask protests etc.

Regarding the inter island ferries, it does seem a bit of an oddity, but in general the passenger decks have a much lower density than say waiheke ferry. Also the presence of private cabins (Blue-bridge ferry), and widespread consumption of meals (especially by truck drivers) would require adding more exemptions to the public transport mask policy, and it was simpler just to exempt cook straight ferries.

freitasm:

 

Removed a political post.

 

@GV27 next one you are blocked from posting in this sub-forum.

 

Noted.

Next review on the levels is Friday from an article I read this morning but can no longer find...

Not impressed with the images I saw of all the people at Auckland Airport, including those who can't wear a mask. 
Also not impressed with having to rely on Aucklanders doing the right thing. 

Tourism into and out of Auckland should not have been allowed to resume this week. What a ridiculous decision.

Handful of cases today, all linked to the Roskill Cluster.

gzt:

If you look at the history of RCs in NZ you will find they are overall very very effective.

Generally agree it's been very good with only minor issues. One of the first things an RC will find is the health system at present is geared for the day to day business of healthcare planning and is not set up for all the rapid response required for pandemic events. The social media issues this week showed that again in very small way.

I like two of the points you made which I've rephrased in my own words:

• Royal Commissions are generally more effective than other types of enquiry. If we want to find out what happened then is likely to be a better route than expecting the current decision-makers to reveal what they did wrong.
• Our health system is not geared up to provide rapid decision-making. I suspect that is why there has been a lot of clarity around many Covid-19 issues this year.

Scott3:

 

Should note that the Auckland border was never "closed", it was merely restricted. There were tens of thousands of people per day entering and leaving Auckland (by air and road) while it was in level 3.

 

The travel restrictions were always about reducing the odds of spread to the rest of NZ, rather than eliminating the risk.

 

about not wearing when they are out in public. Sadly the alternative seems to be what we have seen offshore with video's of police arrests for this reason going viral, and anti-mask protests etc.

 

Still think it was stupid to open Auckland border. The cases outside of Auckland were from people on holiday.

Big difference someone going outside Auckland for work or medical reason, then allowing everyone to travel for the sake of it.

Now the risk is a lot higher for the rest of the country. Not sure if thousands would’ve been leaving by air before.

GV27:

 

Handful of cases today, all linked to the Roskill Cluster.

 

the problem I have currently with the management of the Auckland cluster(s) is the lack of information being made public,

Sure we get the numbers and that they are close contacts etc....

But, We were told earlier in this outbreak that close contacts of positive cases were being put into MIQ, so the question I have is, Are these new cases people who are already isolated or are they still being picked up at roll up testing ?( in the wild)

If its the former then I'm not overly concerned,

But if we are finding cases in the wild and then linking them back... then I have a whole different level of concern,,,

Edit update: they are all in isolation...

Jornos had to ask this specific question to get the answer, ( why was it not in the original announcement )

"Hipkins says the alert system was designed to not need a lockdown to kill off a community cluster. He says all the new cases are people already in isolation so the system is working."

Just went up the road to pick up lunch, still quite a number of people not wearing masks in reasonably close distances to others. This is an area supported by the same bus route that was linked to the case at St Lukes and probably within 1 km of the Finance place with the covid case on Dominion Road.

Perhaps some people think this is only affecting Maori and Pacifica people.

wellygary:

GV27:

Handful of cases today, all linked to the Roskill Cluster.

the problem I have currently with the management of the Auckland cluster(s) is the lack of information being made public,

Sure we get the numbers and that they are close contacts etc....

 

But, We were told earlier in this outbreak that close contacts of positive cases were being put into MIQ, so the question I have is, Are these new cases people who are already isolated or are they still being picked up at roll up testing ?( in the wild)

If its the former then I'm not overly concerned,

But if we are finding cases in the wild and then linking them back... then I have a whole different level of concern,,,

 

The number of contacts not contacted yet has been higher for the last few days - it was mid 40s, then 60s and now it is over 100. 

E: This could just be them getting effective at identifying close contacts and adding them on faster than they can track people down. Not necessarily a failure.