2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2557539 5-Sep-2020 16:39

dejadeadnz: Morons protesting again.

Kids, pay attention at school or you might become an idiot like these people.

People are idiots. They protest with a photo of Hitler bearing the PM's face. They protest against "tiranny".

Just ask them who in their household and family they would like to nominate to die first or be incapacitated for life if they get sick now.

Same as the crowd last week saying "No more lockdown. No to globalism".

These people are idiots.

One thing is free speech. Another thing is being a complete moron and playing with other people's life and health.

From the article:

NZ Liberty Movement says on the protest's Facebook page that their message is simple: "Lockdowns are not justifiable on any reasonable grounds."

A speaker at the protest spoke on how he believed "New Zealanders essentially have no rights now".

What a joke.

SepticSceptic

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#2557544 5-Sep-2020 16:49

freitasm:
From the article:

A speaker at the protest spoke on how he believed "New Zealanders essentially have no rights now".

What a joke.

You have the right to protest in public and make a complete ass of yourself...

Oblivian

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#2557592 5-Sep-2020 17:24

Unsure why most the population happily puts on underwear to keep their bits in (and some terrible clothes) and stop others seeing them naked

Put on a condom to stop accidental children being passed on or any STIs they don't know about.

Yet a mask for the same reason, is such an issue. Because someone in authority suggested it rather than your school teacher in health class 30 years ago.

mattwnz

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#2557596 5-Sep-2020 17:45

tdgeek:

shk292:

Where else could it possibly have come from? We have thousands of inbound travelers every week, law of probability says that we are going to get infections from this, it's just a matter of how often. Sure, total closure is problematic but maybe we could reduce that number significantly and in doing so, increase the time between outbreaks.

The first case was from Americold. They have it in Melbourne. While frozen contact was largely dismissed as unlikely, its known, and reported recently that it can stay very viable. While as Fred says, no matching genome is not 100% guaranteed you would have thought that you would get a clear match from the many infections we imported.

I think the incoming has dropped a lot, so that it matches those leaving MIQ

In any case, what we did in March worked, what we are doing now is working. Reduce the ability to find a host, that works.

I understand the genome was totally different between the cases in both countries, so they have effectively ruled that out. Not only that, but there were so many potential holes around the border identified due to lack of testing or border staff, airline staff etc. If the border was water tight, then it may make it a larger possibility. IMO if they want to have abetter chance of finding out, they would test the entire community to see who may still have virus remnants, and maybe even do antibody testing, as some people who travel overseas from are testing positive for Covid, even though they may have had the virus in NZ before the first lockdown.

mattwnz

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#2557612 5-Sep-2020 18:35

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

Time will tell. If we start to get cases occurring outside Auckland from the cluster, it will show that the border opened too early.

What do you suggest? Keep AKL in Level 3 indefinitely? Its a case of diminishing returns, you harm AKL economy and education while most cases we see are already in MIQ or already isolating due to cluster contact, both of which offer no spread. If you want no cases then Level 4 NZ again to be sure. Or Level 4 AKL for another 3 weeks plus. But you are then providing huge harm for little gain. The plan now as it was in March is to limit hosts, then the virus can't go anywhere. If we see cases drying up, then the annoying flouters poses less and less risk every day as in the population of 5 million, or AKL's 1.7 million, its drying up. Im March we were dealing with voluntary international border isolation, now we aren't, so it is a lot tighter now, and its working as it did in March.

But if you want an instant fix, Level 4 all of us for 4 weeks from today

Early on there was a lot of debate over health vs economy. Today, the pendulum has swung the other way, as its working in our favour, despite more flouters and despite only Level 3.

I said in a previous post prior to moving down a level, I suggested Auckland to move down to level 2.5, and not necessarily remain in level 3, but if they did move down, to keep the border inplace. This may then have allowed the rest of NZ to go down to level 1.5 at the same time if the border remains in place. Then see how it trends for 2-4 weeks. The reasoning to opening the borders to anyone because NZ is a mobile country, was somewhat illogical, because the border was already open to essential things and exceptions. So businesses could still freight stuff etc, and the fact is that the rest of the world who are covid infested are essentially already operating in a level 2-2.5 today. So even if we let the virus just spread, a level 2-2.5 would then become our new normal for potentially years. Instead people couldn't just wait a little while longer, to make sure that all cases had been found and it was fully contained, which they are still no 100% sure about due to at least one case they haven't been able to find a epidemiological link, just a genome link.

So most business that freighted stuff for example could still do this with borders closed. We were also told previously that future level raises were likely to involve borders being in place, and Australia use them, so borders are part of getting through this . The risk factor in Auckland was substantially higher than the rest of NZ, but because the border was opened, it meant that the risk in the rest of NZ then increased, which is why the rest of NZ couldn't move down to a level 1.5. Level 2.5 isn't compatible with level 1.5, so we couldn't allow travel between two different levels like that.

Also the lack of social distancing of some politicians I have seen, now they are out campaigning, is also a big concern and showing double standards. Aren't people still meant to behave like they have covid, and trying not to infect others? But pressing the flesh of politicians in campaign mode is hardly compatible with a Covid world.

kingdragonfly

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#2557625 5-Sep-2020 19:02

What's Up With That Russian Vaccine?

Filmed 4 days ago, and posted around Saturday 5 pm.

SciShow News

kingdragonfly

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#2557635 5-Sep-2020 19:23

Summary: the US ain't Sweden. Sweden did not just ignore the problem and the politicians ask their citizens to wait on a miracle.

Sweden actually made changes to their behavior, relied on its superior health care system, and let's face it, more mature when asked to obey public health rules.

CNN investigates Sweden's controversial Covid-19 strategy

After an initial surge, Sweden now has one of the lowest coronavirus death rates in Europe.

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alexx

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#2557655 5-Sep-2020 20:13

dejadeadnz: Morons protesting again.

Kids, pay attention at school or you might become an idiot like these people.

I took a look at the pictures and they had "Ban 1080" and all sorts of unrelated causes and QAnon conspiracy theories on their signs.

For those wondering how strict things really are, there is a Government Response Stringency Index, which can be seen as measurement of how tough the covid restrictions are in each country.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index

Dark blue means very strict and lighter colours mean very few restrictions. Since Auckland came out of level 3, we appear to have fewer restrictions than most comparable countries, including UK, US, Australia, Canada, most of Asia and most of Europe.

Some of those countries with similar levels of restrictions (e.g. Spain) are seeing rising case numbers.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

Scott3

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#2557691 5-Sep-2020 21:57

alexx:

dejadeadnz: Morons protesting again.

Kids, pay attention at school or you might become an idiot like these people.

I took a look at the pictures and they had "Ban 1080" and all sorts of unrelated causes and QAnon conspiracy theories on their signs.

For those wondering how strict things really are, there is a Government Response Stringency Index, which can be seen as measurement of how tough the covid restrictions are in each country.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index

Dark blue means very strict and lighter colours mean very few restrictions. Since Auckland came out of level 3, we appear to have fewer restrictions than most comparable countries, including UK, US, Australia, Canada, most of Asia and most of Europe.

Some of those countries with similar levels of restrictions (e.g. Spain) are seeing rising case numbers.

On this note, I was amused to hear our leader of the Opposition refer to alert level 2 as a lock-down. Doesn't really align with the definition:

The confining of prisoners to their cells, typically in order to regain control during a riot.

"the lockdown has been in effect since October 1983"

a state of isolation or restricted access instituted as a security measure.

"the university is on lockdown and nobody has been able to leave"

The protests are a bit weird too. I get the impression that there is a chunk of people that want to attend anti government protests for any reason, and others that want to piggy back on any protest for unrelated causes (i.e. 1080 opponents). I also think there are many that follow international (partially USA) media, and take on stances that don't really apply in NZ.

As alexx points out, current Level 2 restrictions are pretty mild on a global scale, and we enjoyed a couple of months with some of the lightest restriction in the world (packed sports stadiums etc) in the midst of a global pandemic.

mattwnz

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#2557696 6-Sep-2020 00:31

This story that was the top story on One News tonight looks ominous for a potential case outside Auckland https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/potential-case-covid-19-under-investigation-in-christchurch-ministry-health-confirms

The ministry wouldn't confirm if the person has tested positive. They are in managed isolation but it is not clear if that has always been the case.

wellygary

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#2557703 6-Sep-2020 07:09

Let’s wait and see, it should be clear today what is going on,
The rapid tested the Auckland cases ( few hours ) when the popped up ...so they could go public with the confirmation within 24 hours...

One possibility is that it’s connected to the Antarctic programme , they were running a seperate 14 day Miq for departees ... also those arriving for o/s heading south were also in seperate location

Batman

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#2557708 6-Sep-2020 08:00

apparently not enough people testing in South AKL

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300100393/coronavirus-calls-for-more-community-testing-fall-on-deaf-ears-following-two-covid19-deaths

Fred99

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#2557783 6-Sep-2020 10:11

dejadeadnz: Morons protesting again.

Kids, pay attention at school or you might become an idiot like these people.

Police in Victoria mustering covidiots:

Batman

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#2557784 6-Sep-2020 10:15

wow that's the whole police dept!

kingdragonfly

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#2557794 6-Sep-2020 11:01

Batman:
apparently not enough people testing in South AKL

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300100393/coronavirus-calls-for-more-community-testing-fall-on-deaf-ears-following-two-covid19-deaths

I guess it's pointless to point out that Maori and Pasifika usually have worse outcomes when contracting the virus.

Maybe we should take a hint from the man who walked around Florida beaches dressed as the Grump Reaper, to get the message out.

NZ Herald: Covid 19 coronavirus: Māori more likely to die from the virus, says new study

SpinOff: Māori are 50% more likely to die from Covid-19 – at a bare minimum

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