Nissan LEAF - General

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#1981020 21-Mar-2018 14:33

happyfunball:

Is the colour of the car included in the survey? I realise this could sound far fetched, but the reason I ask is that a black Leaf with a dark interior parked outside in the sun will get significantly hotter than a white leaf with a light interior. My car is black on black, and parked in the sun, windows open and sunshade installed, its still oven hot. The other day I parked next to a white Leaf with beige interior and it was barely warm to the touch.

If temperature is a factor in degradation would we could see a correlation between the colour of the car and the SOH?

Its also relatively easy to ask for this information and apply it to your existing data if you agree it may be relevant.

Still Nissan's fault for designing a car that looks bollocks in anything but black or dark grey!

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#1981027 21-Mar-2018 14:47

happyfunball:

Is the colour of the car included in the survey? I realise this could sound far fetched, but the reason I ask is that a black Leaf with a dark interior parked outside in the sun will get significantly hotter than a white leaf with a light interior. My car is black on black, and parked in the sun, windows open and sunshade installed, its still oven hot. The other day I parked next to a white Leaf with beige interior and it was barely warm to the touch.

If temperature is a factor in degradation would we could see a correlation between the colour of the car and the SOH?

Its also relatively easy to ask for this information and apply it to your existing data if you agree it may be relevant.

We currently don't collect car colour but it easy to get from registration data (see https://www.carjam.co.nz/). You'd want to convert each colour into a quantitative value of solar energy absorbed per unit area per unit of time.

It is likely there will be some small variation in the temperature of the battery explained by the colour of the car but it will be very likely too noisy to be a useful predictor. What we really need is continuous measurements of battery temperature.

[Edit: half my comment didn't appear]

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#1981030 21-Mar-2018 14:50

GV27:

Still Nissan's fault for designing a car that looks bollocks in anything but black or dark grey!

I didn't get mine because it looked cool, but damn if the 2018 model isn't far less goofy.

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#1981129 21-Mar-2018 17:27

Just got home, and my OBD dongle has arrived. LeafSpy reports SOH=78.23% for 16,653km. It was 92% when I bought it at 11,000km. That's ... more degradation than I had expected.

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#1981183 21-Mar-2018 18:10

SaltyNZ:

Just got home, and my OBD dongle has arrived. LeafSpy reports SOH=78.23% for 16,653km. It was 92% when I bought it at 11,000km. That's ... more degradation than I had expected.

Sorry to hear that. As a comparison, we purchased our 2015 24 kWh Leaf also at 11,000 km with a SoH = 94% and are now at 25,000 km and have a SoH = 94%.

Was your car showing 11 or 12 bars of battery health? I suspect 11 but there can be reasonable variance.

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#1981188 21-Mar-2018 18:21

When I bought it? 12. Now, the top bar goes off and on.

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#1981197 21-Mar-2018 18:47

It’s especially annoying because I paid the premium for 30kWh due to my 130km round trip daily commute. That puts it at the upper end for a healthy 24kWh car, and I wanted to leave myself some headroom for normal battery degradation. Assuming the 78% figure is correct that means I actually have LESS effective capacity than you.

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#1981200 21-Mar-2018 18:58

SaltyNZ: It’s especially annoying because I paid the premium for 30kWh due to my 130km round trip daily commute. That puts it at the upper end for a healthy 24kWh car, and I wanted to leave myself some headroom for normal battery degradation. Assuming the 78% figure is correct that means I actually have LESS effective capacity than you.

Can you still do the 130km commute each day? Since you purchased the car have you noticed a difference in the amount of remaining charge when you get home?

We are all making judgement on our cars based on an app that is NOT from nor indorsed by Nissan and for all we know could very well be feeding us bogus data. it works well on the 24kw/h battery but as we are all aware the 30kw configuration and chemistry are different. Has anyone taken their cars into a Nissan service centre and had a service report done?

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#1981201 21-Mar-2018 19:04

I can still do the trip, but I have noticed range remaining has dropped. You make a good point about the app which is why I’m not necessarily jumping up and down yet. I have written to the dealer to ask if they are aware of the study and if so what they are planning to do about it.

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#1981203 21-Mar-2018 19:09

Whatever else has been indicated here and in other forums, one point is very clear. The batteries of a very large proportion of 2016 30kWh JDM Leafs are not performing up to the reasonable buyer's expectation that the model was an upgrade, not a downgrade, on the 24kWh model that had been around for five preceding years. I hope Nissan are REALLY taking note and will be working urgently on providing a solution. When I buy a car less than two years old, I expect it to be of use to me for many more than the four years when, at present rates of battery degradation, it will no longer be "fit for purpose". Fitness for me equates to a range on full charge of at least 150km.

I did approach a Nissan NZ dealership (see my previous posts) and was told in January its service/technical department would come back to me regarding my concerns. Does their failure to do so not suggest their inability to provide a service report based on endorsed methodology?

Leaf Learner

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#1981204 21-Mar-2018 19:20

dirtbag:

We are all making judgement on our cars based on an app that is NOT from nor indorsed by Nissan and for all we know could very well be feeding us bogus data. it works well on the 24kw/h battery but as we are all aware the 30kw configuration and chemistry are different. Has anyone taken their cars into a Nissan service centre and had a service report done?

Note that LeafSpy is only reporting a value that is calculated from the Leaf battery management systems (BMS) and is officially called the lithium-ion battery state of health (LBSOH) when the Nissan Consult 3+ tool saves the data from the battery report.

Although there is a definitely nuisance variation in SoH, preliminary results do support a relationship with battery kWh. There is also a strong relationship between SoH and battery capacity bars shown on the dash.

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#1981216 21-Mar-2018 19:44

SaltyNZ: I can still do the trip, but I have noticed range remaining has dropped. You make a good point about the app which is why I’m not necessarily jumping up and down yet. I have written to the dealer to ask if they are aware of the study and if so what they are planning to do about it.

You've likely already seen Consumer's page at https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/nissan-leafs-not-going-the-distance ?

If you live in a part of the country that gets rather cold during winter the other problem that may come up soon is less efficiency during winter. We average 7 km/kWh during summer and 6 km/kWh in winter (mostly open-road driving).

paulchinnz

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#1981219 21-Mar-2018 19:58

@dirtbag - I took my Leaf in for service 6 months ago, and the headline battery result, "Current battery status", was simply a picture of 10 black rectangles.

Coincidentally, this was also the number of bars on my dash display.

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#1981243 21-Mar-2018 21:44

https://www.nissan.ca/content/dam/nissan/ca/owners/manuals/LEAF/2017-Nissan-LEAF.pdf

Extract from the above Nissan 2017 Leaf Owner's Manual:

"The capacity of the Li-ion battery in your vehicle to hold a charge will, like all such batteries, decrease with time and usage. As the battery ages and capacity decreases, this will result in a decrease from the vehicle’s initial mileage range. This is normal, expected, and not indicative of any defect in your Li-ion battery. NISSAN estimates that battery capacity will be approximately 80% of original capacity after five years, although this is only an estimate, and this percentage may vary (and could be significantly lower) depending on individual vehicle and Li-ion battery usage."

So, it has to be accepted that Nissan has clearly specified that the battery capacity of 80% of original capacity after 5 years is only an estimate, and this percentage may vary (and could be significantly lower) depending on individual vehicle and Li-ion battery usage.

So in what circumstances would Nissan NZ, or NZ car dealers be legally liable to provide a replacement battery for imported used 30 kWh Leafs when the words "only an estimate" and "could be significantly lower" are clearly stated in the Owner's Manual?

afe66

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#1981249 21-Mar-2018 22:07

Surely since Nissan didn't officially sell Leafs here it does seem a little unrealistic to expect them to do anything under our laws.

From a pr point of view they might do something or they might just abandon launching here.

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