RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

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#3138069 3-Oct-2023 05:44

LittleGreyCat:[snip] It would, however, be interesting to consider an EV with a generator run off LPG

At the risk of going OT from RUCs, if the fuel source is LPG, it isn't an electric vehicle in the same way a diesel locomotive coverts to electricity for the traction motors doesn't mean it's an electric train.

weasel13

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#3138082 3-Oct-2023 07:37

SaltyNZ:
Scott3:

perhaps a bad thing to discourage their purchase.

Unless you're towing a boat 200km every week, you should be discouraged from purchasing a PHEV. And if you are towing a boat constantly, then you'll be running on petrol most of the time anyway.

PHEVs are the worst of both worlds.

How are they the worst of both worlds?
If you're running a single car then they are probably the best of both worlds. For example the Mitsubishi Outlander you get a big family car to get around town during the week on electric only and then in weekends you can go where you like without worrying about range.

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#3138083 3-Oct-2023 07:44

Another option is to maintain the current RUC system and expand its application to include EVs and other vehicles. However, it may be worthwhile to remove the carbon tax on fuels and instead implement an emissions charge that is integrated into the RUC structure based on the specific type of vehicle engine.

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#3138106 3-Oct-2023 08:44

weasel13:
If you're running a single car then they are probably the best of both worlds. For example the Mitsubishi Outlander you get a big family car to get around town during the week on electric only and then in weekends you can go where you like without worrying about range.

But I have two BEVs and I can already go wherever I like on the weekend without worrying about range.

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#3138112 3-Oct-2023 08:54

SaltyNZ:
weasel13:
If you're running a single car then they are probably the best of both worlds. For example the Mitsubishi Outlander you get a big family car to get around town during the week on electric only and then in weekends you can go where you like without worrying about range.

But I have two BEVs and I can already go wherever I like on the weekend without worrying about range.

So you don't have to worry about range. That must therefore hold true for every other EV and person? Such a bad example.

I stand by my previous statement that PHEV are beneficial and not the worst of both worlds like your gross generalization

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#3138123 3-Oct-2023 09:00

weasel13:

So you don't have to worry about range. That must therefore hold true for every other EV and person? Such a bad example.

I stand by my previous statement that PHEV are beneficial and not the worst of both worlds like your gross generalization

I drove a shitty Leaf for 5 years, and I worried about range then.

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#3138141 3-Oct-2023 09:19

weasel13:
How are they the worst of both worlds?
If you're running a single car then they are probably the best of both worlds. For example the Mitsubishi Outlander you get a big family car to get around town during the week on electric only and then in weekends you can go where you like without worrying about range.

The mechanical complexity of an ICE engine and tying that in with a hybrid powertrain, vs. a much simpler and far less onerous servicing requirements and smooth power delivery of a modern EV?

Plus a PHEV is going to have a smaller battery and be utterly thrashed over the same period of time by constant discharge/recharge, much like the early EVs that suffered from range anxiety.

Modern EVs tick the box for a singe car household in a way that the original Leafs didn't. Few would claim that they did. Even the 40kwh ones are borderline, and I own one.

There are plenty of more affordable family-sized pure EVs these days which will give you 350km+ on a charge. If you're driving your family around you're not likely to be doing Bathurst-length co-driving stints which would mean you can't stop for a half hour charge somewhere. I might have done that in my 20s but not anymore.

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#3138146 3-Oct-2023 09:27

weasel13:

So you don't have to worry about range. That must therefore hold true for every other EV and person? Such a bad example.

I stand by my previous statement that PHEV are beneficial and not the worst of both worlds like your gross generalization

The worst of both worlds comment in regard to PHEVs is often stated. It refers to PHEVs requiring frequent charging in order to maintain their economy advantage over a basic ICE vehicle and they retain the complexity and maintenance requirements of an ICE while also having the added weight of a battery and associated componentry to carry around.

The likely addition of the costs of RUCs for PHEVs will further compromise their viability and popularity.

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#3138149 3-Oct-2023 09:34

GV27:

If you're driving your family around you're not likely to be doing Bathurst-length co-driving stints which would mean you can't stop for a half hour charge somewhere. I might have done that in my 20s but not anymore.

Hell no. The appeal of peeing into a bottle in order to shave 10 minutes off a trip has long since waned, if it was ever a real thing to begin with. Which it wasn't.

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#3138161 3-Oct-2023 10:15

@SaltyNZ on a trip from Wellington to Taupo or Wellington to Napier I would stop for let's say rest break at least 4 times, maybe more depending on coffee input.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#3138166 3-Oct-2023 10:30

MikeB4: @SaltyNZ on a trip from Wellington to Taupo or Wellington to Napier I would stop for let's say rest break at least 4 times, maybe more depending on coffee input.

Yeah, last couple of times when I did Warkworth-Wellington and Warkworth-Palmy I did about 10 minutes in Hamilton - long enough to use the loo - then a decent stop in Taupo (because by this time not only does the car need recharging but I've been driving for nearly 5 hours) then another shorter stop for coffee & loo at Maungaweka. I got to Wellington in about 9.5 hours. I don't think it would've been much quicker in an ICE.

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#3138171 3-Oct-2023 10:44

I drive an ICE and if I have been drinking a coffee, fizzy or an energy drink. There is always a put stop between Wellington and Palmerston North.

Shout out to Shannon and Otaki for their public facilities.

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#3138175 3-Oct-2023 10:52

So should RUCs be used to provide restroom/food facilities at appropriate intervals?

Oh wait, that’s what petrol stations do at the moment.

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#3138177 3-Oct-2023 10:54

I think there's plenty of HEV owners out there who would argue that the maintenance obligations in that situation are not substantially more than those of a pure EV.

So arguing that Hybrid's are the worst of all worlds is disingenuous and an over-simplification.

PHEV's make heaps of sense for people who commute relatively short distances, are generally able to be charged each night, but still may have ad-hoc need to travel with range or _not_ be charged each night. Or people who can't charge each night will get what amounts to standard HEV benefits.

I recently got a Prius (could not afford to go EV or PHEV in my budget and with my parameters generally) and am enjoying the fact that my fuel efficiency has increased by 40% but I can still get 600km per fuel tank and don't have to plan my road trips and break times around the locations of fast chargers. And when I do Wellington-to-Auckland I can stop where i want, when I want, for as long (or as short) as I want... 5 minutes to regain 600km of range still works best for me.

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#3138179 3-Oct-2023 10:55

Dingbatt:

So should RUCs be used to provide restroom/food facilities at appropriate intervals?

Oh wait, that’s what petrol stations do at the moment.

And will likely continue to do so, since they make way more profit on the $6 coffee than the $200 petrol.

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