Nissan LEAF - General

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Ultimate Geek
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#2066762 2-Aug-2018 10:44

SpartanVXL: Does the head unit otherwise work well? I can read JP so if it's otherwise functionally sound I don't think I would replace :)

The Japanese head unit works great including the radio.

The only thing that doesn’t work is the navigation. The menus are easily translated with google translate and the camera on your phone. I find I didn’t use the menus after a couple of weeks with the car anyway.

If you are thinking of replacing the head unit it’s a good idea to wait a couple of weeks and see if you really need it.

tripper1000

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#2066775 2-Aug-2018 11:02

Or if you haven't purchased a car yet and are based in AKL, see if Autolink has the right car for you, as they do the head deck upgrade included in the price. I was looking else where, but for no extra cost I could get the English head deck so that swayed me to go with them.

RUKI

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#2067089 2-Aug-2018 19:57

Quick reply to few FAQ:

- Nissan NZ is working on disclaimer and announced that JDM firmware version as well as UK version for LBC upgrade is available to them. Disclaimer is understandable as SOP is non-reversible, one way and does not assume back up. Doubtful, they be upgrading those JDM cars which have been put on UK version already. Although technically it is possible but it is against their SOP.

- USA Leaf Head unit if purchased without both rows of buttons (as they are a bit different vs JDM) seems to loose 1 audio related feature - (AUX input or something else, was long time ago I checked).

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jonathan18

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#2067161 2-Aug-2018 21:07

RUKI:

Quick reply to few FAQ:

- USA Leaf Head unit if purchased without both rows of buttons (as they are a bit different vs JDM) seems to loose 1 audio related feature - (AUX input or something else, was long time ago I checked).

As I've mentioned previously, of the three direct input buttons on the US head unit, only the radio button works; CD and Aux/Bluetooth don't do anything. This means multiple presses of the rocker switch on the steering wheel to find the right input as there's (from memory) FM1>FM2>AM>Sat1>Sat2>Sat3>CD>Bluetooth to switch through!

frednz

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#2067590 3-Aug-2018 16:28

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018656478/new-twist-in-nissan-leaf-battery-story

The above article says that:

Nissan New Zealand has said that as it neither imports nor sells the Leaf in New Zealand, the owners would have to pay Nissan dealers to fix it.

“You need to find a certified Nissan dealer and take your car there, make an appointment and they will ask you to pay $100 excluding GST,” Mr Moller said.

Some had already done so, and were seeing dramatic improvements.

“The most extreme cases that we’ve seen so far was a 17 percent increase, so if you apply the software upgrade we’ve been able to backwards calculate what the software upgrade, and how big the adjustment is.

Does this mean that Nissan dealers now have official Nissan firmware updates for the 30 kWh Nissan Leafs and that this costs $115 (incl GST) and not the $250 that people on this forum have paid to some car dealers for unofficial software?

There is also on the above site a link to a very interesting interview with Henrik Moller and Consumer's Paul Smith.

PhantomNVD

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#2067669 3-Aug-2018 18:46

https://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/nissan-new-zealand-says-it-will-fix-30kw-leaf-battery-issue

This report says they came to this arrangement “after consulting our parent company in Japan”

So I’d say this must be a legit software version, and they just undercut the other providers buy more than 60% (if rather belatedly)

Since there’s ‘apparently’ nothing actually wrong with the cars, I’d say $100 for a software update to make you more able to know its ‘true’ state is more than fair...

That’s what I paid for my jap->English dash conversion for roughly the same reason too...

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SaltyNZ

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#2067680 3-Aug-2018 19:01

Does anyone know who these six authorised dealerships are?

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gulfa

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#2067685 3-Aug-2018 19:04

North Shore: City Nissan Takapuna
Central Auckland: Giltrap Nissan
South Auckland: Manukau Nissan
Hamilton: Jim Wright Nissan
Hastings: Hawkes Bay Nissan
Wellington: Gazley Nissan
Christchurch: Cockram Nissan.

frednz

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#2067720 3-Aug-2018 19:48

PhantomNVD: https://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/nissan-new-zealand-says-it-will-fix-30kw-leaf-battery-issue

This report says they came to this arrangement “after consulting our parent company in Japan”

So I’d say this must be a legit software version, and they just undercut the other providers buy more than 60% (if rather belatedly)

Since there’s ‘apparently’ nothing actually wrong with the cars, I’d say $100 for a software update to make you more able to know its ‘true’ state is more than fair...

That’s what I paid for my jap->English dash conversion for roughly the same reason too...

https://autofile.co.nz/nissan-nz-to-update-30kwh-leafs-

The above article is also worth reading and it mentions that:

“As the 30kWh Nissan Leaf was not sold by Nissan NZ, we have no local technical information relating to this vehicle specification and have consulted with our parent company in Japan to determine an appropriate response,” Manley says in a communication to Henrik Moller, co-founder of Flip The Fleet.

“Through this consultation process, Nissan NZ can now advise of the availability of a software upgrade to reprogram the LBCs on the 30kWh Leaf.”

So it does look like this may be a different version of the firmware than is currently being supplied by GVI Electric which the article says "has already teamed up with electrical engineer Walter Larason, of Christchurch-based EVs Enhanced, to provide the updates for battery management systems".

If you have already had the GVI $250 update done, this raises the question of whether you should now "overwrite" it with the "official" $115 version.

Perhaps Nissan needs to clarify whether it's necessary to do this?

EVsEnhanced

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#2067814 3-Aug-2018 21:39

frednz:

If you have already had the GVI $250 update done, this raises the question of whether you should now "overwrite" it with the "official" $115 version.

Firstly, unofficial does not mean inferior. We have complete confidence in all of the updates that we've performed. During the development and testing leading up to us offering this service, we needed to first have confidence in the firmware update files we were using and then in the stability of the update process. I wont divulge how and why we have confidence in the files, but the stability of the update process was something we needed to build trust in. This was accomplished in stages. Firstly we performed many updates on spare LBCs we had on the bench sometimes following best practices and other times intentionally not. Next we moved on to five Leafs that we had either in our test fleet or on loan to us. Finally we moved on to dealer stock to increase the number of successful updates under our belt before any customer's cars were involved. We found some traps along the way that almost bit us, but we revised and improved our processes along the way until we had a high level of confidence in the process. Even after all of this, we still had a contingency plan and the cost of this spread across all the cars being updated was also a critical factor in the price charged to the public.

In the event that an LBC update we were performing had failed and could not be recovered in place, the partner we were doing the job for would have lent their local customer a Leaf from their own stock. It was very important to us to minimise inconvenience to a fellow EV owner in this situation. Secondly we would have taken care of the repair at our own cost in a timely manner. We have a fresh 30kWh LBC already with the update sitting here in Christchurch ready to be fitted to a car if required. We've had LBCs in and out of cars countless times as past, so it would have been an inconvenience, but not a disaster. Plus as well as the experience, we've got the ability to pair a new LBC to a car - no Nissan dealer in NZ currently has been given that ability. In fact, several of our partners now have this ability too as we recently developed a battery pairing tool for them. The key point is that without even advertising it, we were actually offering a higher level of service and support than many people realised - hence the higher price.

But we're actually delighted that Nissan NZ has stepped up to offer this service at such a reasonable price as now we can go back to working on other new and exciting EV projects while knowing that 30kWh Leaf owners in NZ are still being supported. It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

frednz

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#2068027 4-Aug-2018 17:16

EVsEnhanced:

frednz:

If you have already had the GVI $250 update done, this raises the question of whether you should now "overwrite" it with the "official" $115 version.

Firstly, unofficial does not mean inferior. We have complete confidence in all of the updates that we've performed. During the development and testing leading up to us offering this service, we needed to first have confidence in the firmware update files we were using and then in the stability of the update process. I wont divulge how and why we have confidence in the files, but the stability of the update process was something we needed to build trust in. This was accomplished in stages. Firstly we performed many updates on spare LBCs we had on the bench sometimes following best practices and other times intentionally not. Next we moved on to five Leafs that we had either in our test fleet or on loan to us. Finally we moved on to dealer stock to increase the number of successful updates under our belt before any customer's cars were involved. We found some traps along the way that almost bit us, but we revised and improved our processes along the way until we had a high level of confidence in the process. Even after all of this, we still had a contingency plan and the cost of this spread across all the cars being updated was also a critical factor in the price charged to the public.

In the event that an LBC update we were performing had failed and could not be recovered in place, the partner we were doing the job for would have lent their local customer a Leaf from their own stock. It was very important to us to minimise inconvenience to a fellow EV owner in this situation. Secondly we would have taken care of the repair at our own cost in a timely manner. We have a fresh 30kWh LBC already with the update sitting here in Christchurch ready to be fitted to a car if required. We've had LBCs in and out of cars countless times as past, so it would have been an inconvenience, but not a disaster. Plus as well as the experience, we've got the ability to pair a new LBC to a car - no Nissan dealer in NZ currently has been given that ability. In fact, several of our partners now have this ability too as we recently developed a battery pairing tool for them. The key point is that without even advertising it, we were actually offering a higher level of service and support than many people realised - hence the higher price.

But we're actually delighted that Nissan NZ has stepped up to offer this service at such a reasonable price as now we can go back to working on other new and exciting EV projects while knowing that 30kWh Leaf owners in NZ are still being supported. It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

Thanks very much for your informative reply. Owners of 30 kWh Leafs can now relax and enjoy their vehicles and dealers can carry on importing them knowing that official Nissan firmware updates are now available. I think Leaf owners owe a huge debt of gratitude to “Flip the Fleet” and also EVs Enhanced for the solid effort they have put in on their behalf and I’m sure that their work has also been appreciated by overseas owners.

It’s great that Nissan NZ has now come to the party and is making official updates available for 30 kWh Leafs. However, I don’t think Nissan should require owners to pay $115 for the update, surely the least they could do is provide these for free? I think this is also the view of Consumer NZ.

It’s good to see the support that EVs Enhanced is offering for the firmware updates they have sold, but I think 30 kWh owners should install the official Nissan firmware before they sell these vehicles. However, I appreciate that, because of the thoroughness of the work of EVs Enhanced, some owners may choose not to do this immediately.

It will be interesting to see after a few more years use whether the sole cause of the fast battery degradation problem was in fact solely due to software inadequacies, and it looks like “Flip the Fleet” will continue monitoring these vehicles. I also hope that the new 40 kWh Nissan Leafs don’t suffer from the same software problems that have plagued the 30 kWh vehicles? I just can’t understand how Nissan could have got the 30 kWh software so badly wrong after all their experience with the successful software installed on the 24 kWh models.

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leaflearner

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#2068207 5-Aug-2018 11:03

frednz:

....I think 30 kWh owners should install the official Nissan firmware before they sell these vehicles. However, I appreciate that, because of the thoroughness of the work of EVs Enhanced, some owners may choose not to do this immediately.

....I just can’t understand how Nissan could have got the 30 kWh software so badly wrong after all their experience with the successful software installed on the 24 kWh models.

From his posts in this thread I conclude that frednz's attitude on Leaf matters is prevailingly negative. Why should he "think" 30kWh owners (or buyers) might find installation of "official Nissan firmware" more desirable while simultaneously recognizing the same company "after all their experience" got it "so badly wrong"?

I might add that the dealer who a year ago imported exactly the vehicle I asked for offered to pay the entire $250 cost of the Larason/EVs Enhanced upgrade. In the event, I insisted we should split the cost 50-50. Although the importer is apparently the legal NZ "manufacturer" no one is disputing the identity of the real manufacturer and their tardiness in correcting their poor R&D.

Nor, as far as I know, is anyone regretting the $250 that an independent, experienced electrical engineer has charged to recoup his costs in helping to put matters right and restore a considerable degree of lost confidence.

As for the future, who knows? One day, batteries being what they are, ours will need replacement. Whether Nissan NZ will ultimately be the people to turn to for this service remains uncertain.

Leaf Learner

frednz

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#2068222 5-Aug-2018 12:13

I am looking at the situation from the point of view of a prospective purchaser of a 30 kWh Nissan Leaf. Most buyers who are spending a lot of money on a vehicle have learned to take a cautious attitude and look carefully into the advantages and disadvantages of that vehicle. So, although my attitude is cautious, I wouldn’t say that it’s prevailingly negative.

To maintain public confidence in the 30 kWh Leaf, I think that owners and buyers of these vehicles should install only official Nissan Software because it’s widely recognised that, installing third party firmware updates that have not been approved by the manufacturer, is not recommended either by the manufacturer or consumer organisations.

In fact, in the latest report from “Flip the Fleet”, it’s stated that:

“It is the opinion of the authors that the most appropriate agent to manage the update of the affected 30 kWh Nissan Leafs is Nissan New Zealand using their nationwide dealer network.”

This same attitude is also shared by David Crawford, CEO of the Motor Industry Assn. who has "expressed concern over the safety of a locally-adapted software patch for the 30kW Leaf."

leaflearner

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#2068240 5-Aug-2018 13:24

Any cautious prospective buyer of a 30kWh Leaf will be clued up on how the issue of the deficient firmware greatly disadvantaged owners of that vehicle; that the fault lay entirely with Nissan; that they came to the assistance of the owners only after many months of delay.

If the 30kWh car being offered to the buyer had been imported and sold by a Nissan dealer with the permission of Nissan head office, the opinion re third-party firmware not approved by the manufacturer would carry some weight.

BUT Nissan has never sold this model in NZ, and your quoted David Crawford of MIA has also pointed out that the legal "manufacturer" is therefore the importer and Nissan has no responsibility.

Meanwhile, Walter Larason has explained the background of the update he has installed more than sufficiently to allay any concern over its safety. Why else would multiple importers/dealers be putting their own reputations on the line by facilitating it? Why else would the owners be happy to risk their cars' future dependability?

All things being equal, Nissan would indeed be "the most appropriate agent to manage the update ... using their nationwide dealer network". But I have my doubts whether each workshop within that network so far has the capability and experience to do the work with the same level of exactitude that has been demonstrated by Walter Larason/EVs Enhanced. I also doubt whether those workshops will be ready to follow up with support should anything go wrong. Would they not revert to the position of telling the customer his car is "grey market" and they have no responsibility for it?

SaltyNZ

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#2068270 5-Aug-2018 15:54

leaflearner:

that the fault lay entirely with Nissan; that they came to the assistance of the owners only after many months of delay.

...Grudgingly and in the face of increasingly loud global bad press that began to threaten their overall brand. I'm glad they made the right decision in the end, but it does feel like a case of damage control rather than genuine concern. If it really is the latter rather than the former, then I look forward to the upcoming announcements regarding servicing of the electric drives, availability of replacement batteries etc. that must surely be coming soon too.

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