Changing lanes across bus lane to a turn left = FINE?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Changing lanes across bus lane to a turn left = FINE?

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#2409937 29-Jan-2020 22:28

It was demonstrated on fair go for the story.

Basically, the green zones mark the start and finish, and are the best indicator of the 50m you have to go on

Found it
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/fair-go-motorists-caught-bus-lane-cameras-questioning-whether-fines-revenue-gathering-scheme

Scott3

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#2409944 29-Jan-2020 23:07

TeaLeaf:

So I turned right at the gas station on Khyber Pass to go left toward Parnell. Now I know there is a bus lane there, but you cannot NOT cross it to turn left, I suppose you could wait until the very last second and do a 2 lane switch and hope you dont hit a bus or anybody else wanting to turn left. Am I wrong?

If Im wrong and you should wait later then so be it, but I just thought it felt safer to be in that lane 10m before I turned left. I may have it all wrong as Im not too familiar with it, but I didnt intentionally drive down a Bus Lane for 100m or something. I had to cross it to turn left I thought.

So its the new sport for the cops to get their monthly telly up. $150

Here is an google streetview link of the tail end of the bus lane in question:

https://goo.gl/maps/1UuE7L5J96LSvKap7

I frequently drive through here, and while the layout is complex, do not find it problematic to navigate. Trickiest time is when traffic is queued into the bus lane (either buses, or more commonly illegal bus lane users), and the only legal way to navigate is to obstruct the Right hand traffic lane, waiting for space to merge into the left lane at the location legally permitted.

The bus lane terminates at the sign (Google maps has blured out the word "Ends" for some reason) and a much narrower cycle lanes commences. At this point traffic in the right hand lane can select either of the lanes marked by right turn arrows (being mindful of traffic in the bus lane of course). Some distance down the road (30M+) an left turn lane is introduced to the left of the cycle lane. Drivers can then (giving way to traffic in the bike lane) move across the bike lane into the left turn lane.

Note that the bus lane terminates in excess of 50m prior to the intersection, hence it is not permitted to be used. (where they can be used they have dotted markings to distinguish the appropriate distance).

Note that enforcement of bus lanes is (typically) undertaken by Auckland transport (although the police do have the power to enforce as well).

This particular bus lane is automated via mounted camera's (nothing sporting at all, just a machine doing as programmed), The camera's are not hiden either, they are mounted on poles overhanging the center of the bus lane. I think the enforcement zone is some distance back from the end of the lane, but am not completly sure on this point.

TeaLeaf:

How do you find the times it operates? Its so BS that you have to do an illegal left hand double lane cross to avoid this fine.

I was about 10am on a Saturday.

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/ask-an-expert/motoring-rules-and-regulations/show/9114/

Your description of "illegal left hand double lane cross" does match with the road layout.

The operational times are printed on the signs. They are currently 7am - 7pm Mon - Sun (as part of a trial of increased operational hours), note that historically this area was used for parking outside of bus lane operational hours, so was typically not available for general traffic anyway.

https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/newmarket-access-improvements/

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#2409945 29-Jan-2020 23:15

Also recall another fine.

Was dropping off a passenger to Auckland University, stopped for 5 seconds, got a fine for can't remember what. Was a student and no Google in those days. Not sure if the fine was justified so just had to pay up. It wasn't a broken yellow. I think it was a no parking zone perhaps. But I thought stopping for 5 seconds to let someone out isn't parking. it really should have said no stopping.

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#2409958 30-Jan-2020 00:50

Scott3:

Here is an google streetview link of the tail end of the bus lane in question:

https://goo.gl/maps/1UuE7L5J96LSvKap7

I frequently drive through here, and while the layout is complex, do not find it problematic to navigate. Trickiest time is when traffic is queued into the bus lane (either buses, or more commonly illegal bus lane users), and the only legal way to navigate is to obstruct the Right hand traffic lane, waiting for space to merge into the left lane at the location legally permitted.

The bus lane terminates at the sign (Google maps has blured out the word "Ends" for some reason) and a much narrower cycle lanes commences. At this point traffic in the right hand lane can select either of the lanes marked by right turn arrows (being mindful of traffic in the bus lane of course). Some distance down the road (30M+) an left turn lane is introduced to the left of the cycle lane. Drivers can then (giving way to traffic in the bike lane) move across the bike lane into the left turn lane.

Note that the bus lane terminates in excess of 50m prior to the intersection, hence it is not permitted to be used. (where they can be used they have dotted markings to distinguish the appropriate distance).

Note that enforcement of bus lanes is (typically) undertaken by Auckland transport (although the police do have the power to enforce as well).

This particular bus lane is automated via mounted camera's (nothing sporting at all, just a machine doing as programmed), The camera's are not hiden either, they are mounted on poles overhanging the center of the bus lane. I think the enforcement zone is some distance back from the end of the lane, but am not completly sure on this point.

Your description of "illegal left hand double lane cross" does match with the road layout.

The operational times are printed on the signs. They are currently 7am - 7pm Mon - Sun (as part of a trial of increased operational hours), note that historically this area was used for parking outside of bus lane operational hours, so was typically not available for general traffic anyway.

https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/newmarket-access-improvements/

Is streetview accurate? The buslane begins at Kingdon street and ends at the Broadway intersection or has it been extended?

Scott3

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#2409959 30-Jan-2020 01:01

Handle9:

Is streetview accurate? The buslane begins at Kingdon street and ends at the Broadway intersection or has it been extended?

The tail end of that bus lane is as I remember.

Of course, the enforcement camera's have been added, and the times on the signs changed.

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#2409960 30-Jan-2020 01:07

Scott3:

Handle9:

Is streetview accurate? The buslane begins at Kingdon street and ends at the Broadway intersection or has it been extended?

The tail end of that bus lane is as I remember.

Of course, the enforcement camera's have been added, and the times on the signs changed.

OK so the OP had ~75 metres between Croydon Street and the start of the bus lane and then about 35 metres between the end of the bus lane and the start of the left turning lanes?

Bad luck OP you're SOL.

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#2409962 30-Jan-2020 05:14

have a read of thise thread from a few year ago:

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=143865

OP was adamant they were in the right, but unfortunately they were not after receiving footage of the incident. It seems AT are pretty good at issuing accurate tickets.

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#2409964 30-Jan-2020 05:59

Batman: Also recall another fine.

Was dropping off a passenger to Auckland University, stopped for 5 seconds, got a fine for can't remember what. Was a student and no Google in those days. Not sure if the fine was justified so just had to pay up. It wasn't a broken yellow. I think it was a no parking zone perhaps. But I thought stopping for 5 seconds to let someone out isn't parking. it really should have said no stopping.

How parking is defined
"parking means,—
(a)
in relation to a portion of a road where parking is for the time being governed by the location of parking machines placed under the authority of a bylaw of a local authority, the stopping or standing of a vehicle on that portion of the road for any period exceeding 5 minutes:
(b)
in relation to any other portion of a road, the stopping or standing of a vehicle (other than a vehicle picking up or setting down passengers in a loading zone or reserved parking area, and entitled to do so) on that portion of the road"

sbiddle

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#2409966 30-Jan-2020 07:23

Batman:

i had a ticket for beating an orange light when i crossed the line when it was green

I did as well a few months ago. I was over the limit line and in the controlled area of the intersection on a green and the light changed to yellow after that and red before I exited the controlled area. The cop didn't seem to understand the law and I had no luck having the ticket waived despite my evidence very clearly showing I was not breaking the law.

It's the only time I really wished I had a dash cam. Dealing with the Police was incredibly frustrating and taking it to court and showing up with that really is the possible chance you've got of getting off a ticket as they'll just believe the officer all the time without compelling evidence such as video footage. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and pay despite knowing you've done nothing wrong.

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#2409972 30-Jan-2020 07:49

Mine was AT guy. He just stands there printing tickets to whomever he pleases, then walks to your door when your passenger disembarks to conveniently hand you the ticket. Mind you that was a long time ago and it taught me not to mess with AT. And no I don't live there anymore thankfully.

xpd

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#2409974 30-Jan-2020 07:55

OP gone quiet..... Id still like to know how he was caught. Not that I drive in that area much these days anyway, but good to know what to watch for :)

XPD / Gavin

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#2409986 30-Jan-2020 08:39

TeaLeaf:

Seems a massive amount of complaints online, I think its time for a petition, paying these public servants to do police work not traffic offense work on an obviously designed spot to increase revenue. Hard to argue against what people online and I am saying. Next you will be getting tickets for not leaving the correct car space behind cars when driving which includes parking. Well done AT, sigh.

So, you're advocating that the drivers on the roads are left to police themselves? Good luck with that. Traffic offenses are just another form of antisocial behaviour and can lead to more serious things. If people believe they can get away with speeding, they will speed. They will queue jump. They will go through red lights. They will then cause crashes, some of which will change the lives of the people they collide with. They may also think that they can get away with other stuff too.

If the fine has been levied correctly, pay up. If not, challenge it through the appropriate channels. It blows my nose when people go on about 'revenue gathering'. If you don't want to incur a fine, stay aware of how you're driving. There are occasions when things are not clear and do need changing. There are more appropriate methods of dealing with it than signing petitions.

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#2409995 30-Jan-2020 09:11

sbiddle:
Batman:

i had a ticket for beating an orange light when i crossed the line when it was green

I did as well a few months ago. I was over the limit line and in the controlled area of the intersection on a green and the light changed to yellow after that and red before I exited the controlled area. The cop didn't seem to understand the law and I had no luck having the ticket waived despite my evidence very clearly showing I was not breaking the law.

If you entered the intersection the exit should have been clear so how did you get delayed?

kiwiharry

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#2409997 30-Jan-2020 09:16

OP would have received images from the camera's to indicate where they were first detected using bus lane. Comparing that against Google maps will give them an indication of the distance travelled in the bus lane.

My wife got pinged in a bus lane last month, also wanting to turn left into an upcoming street. She told me she only entered once she saw other vehicles undertaking her in the bus lane so she pulled in when she got an opportunity. Told her that is no defence and 50m is the rule. She then said it was within 50m. But after reviewing the photo's she entered about 90m back from end of bus lane.

If you can't laugh at yourself then you probably shouldn't laugh at others.

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#2410000 30-Jan-2020 09:21

If an intersection is gathering 100K in revenue and rates in the highest of all revenue stations NZ Wide, then it should be considered a poor design IMO. The majority of people, want to be compliant, therefore if so many people are running foul of it, the layout isn't clear enough, the road markings aren't good enough or something.

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