Utes are planet killers

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#2731210 19-Jun-2021 19:48

This is not an isolated case. There are collages of the campaign vehicles being used last year showing how many of them drive them. Even in urban cases. The first man is given one regularly to tow boats etc for his side job.

Suddenly, they are an issue.

BlinkyBill

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#2731215 19-Jun-2021 20:06

frankv:

Ute popularity is a market distortion caused by tax deductibility on utes. Double-cab utes are the standard thing for tradies & farmers to buy to use for carting their families around. After all, it would be difficult for a farmer to justify a double-cab for use on the farm. But he doesn't have to -- so long as it's a ute, it's deductible. Park outside any country school at pickup/dropoff time and you'll see them all.

I guess a tradie could justify a double-cab as needed for those occasions when he had 4 people to transport somewhere, but again, commonly used as a family vehicle.

So much factually wrong with this comment. Personal use of a work vehicle is not tax deductible.

You would be better off criticising the 75% of utes that are NOT registered as work vehicles.

MikeB4

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#2731218 19-Jun-2021 20:43

mattwnz:

It is all about distraction and taking peoples minds away from NZs real problems. Housing, child poverty etc, which they can't solve

Trucks produce far more pollution than utes, as do some of these SUVs. We used to have a ute and it didn't use any more fuel than an SUV. Infact it was cheaper to run.

The issue is not the amount of fuel used it is what comes out of the exhaust pipe.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

ADWAG

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#2731297 19-Jun-2021 23:53

Don't take this personally but a fairly broad statement being made here....

But as for fact, having owned and driven a late model diesel Ute, it was really economical to run, in fact around 7.2L per 100km. I have recently sold my ute (due to being offered a really good price), and now driving a petrol car chewing through 10.2L per 100km.

Utes look big and hungry but late model Diesel engines have improved.

I did like the comment that someone else had made, that this debate is taking the focus off real issues in this country such as housing!

Have a good day!

mattwnz

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#2731312 20-Jun-2021 01:52

MikeB4:

mattwnz:

It is all about distraction and taking peoples minds away from NZs real problems. Housing, child poverty etc, which they can't solve

Trucks produce far more pollution than utes, as do some of these SUVs. We used to have a ute and it didn't use any more fuel than an SUV. Infact it was cheaper to run.

The issue is not the amount of fuel used it is what comes out of the exhaust pipe.

Both Diesel and Petrol produce fumes. Buses (public transport) are big emitters of visible and smelly diesel fumes, as are trucks and trains. Also there are a lot of houses that have diesel central heating, because it is cheap, and is often used where piped gas isn't available. Diesel engines have improved significantly, and I thought they were as good as petrol these days, and it seems you can get so much more torque from a diesel engine, than you can from a petrol one, especially when towing or driving over hill roads. Towing is gong to be an issue for EVs, as the Tesla 3 for example doesn't tow, whereas most medium petrol cars can tow. .

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#2731318 20-Jun-2021 08:03

@mattwnz you are correct about all ICE vehicles emissions but some emit a lot more and some like diesel emit dangerous carcinogenic chemicals. If a diesel vehicle is not driven correctly it becomes a polluting nightmare and I suspect many of the “fashion” utes are in that state. I have some concerns with the announcement but in general I agree.

You are not correct regarding Tesla and EV towing. We have a friend with the Tesla SUV and he tows the same model caravan that we own very well due to the incredible torque available as soon as he hits the the go fast pedal. Our Rav 4 hybrid pulls our caravan effortlessly and when moving at low speed it using only electricity. Our Rav 4 (current model) has a braked tow capacity of 1500kg.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Rikkitic

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#2731322 20-Jun-2021 08:19

I don't know that utes are the end of the world but I thought that the article I referenced made some interesting points. It is not only about emissions and fuel economy, important as those are. It is also about the sheer size and weight of the vehicles, the psychological aspects of driving them, and inappropriate use of them by non-rural folk running around town in them.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#2731325 20-Jun-2021 08:28

I believe an exemption should apply to farmers and sign written business registered utes until such time as EV and Hybrid utes are available. Another concern I have is this policy will see the fleet of utes in Aotearoa will in time become emission spewing killers.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2731327 20-Jun-2021 08:38

utes are not planet killers. humans are.

farmers need utes for their dairy farm because we want steak milk and cheese

trucks need to transport stuff because humans need bread and fruits

planes and boats - because humans need to visit their kids, eat fish and buy EVs and iphones

don't blame the farmers and the ute.

last time i commented people say if we don't farm here another country will take it up so we need to farm. don't go and blame farmers in the ute thread and justify farmers in the EV thread

as for utes, sales are market driven - any human with money can choose to buy it or not.

Rikkitic

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#2731330 20-Jun-2021 08:43

Batman:

utes are not planet killers. humans are.

farmers need utes for their dairy farm because we want steak milk and cheese

trucks need to transport stuff because humans need bread and fruits

planes and boats - because humans need to visit their kids, eat fish and buy EVs and iphones

don't blame the farmers and the ute.

last time i commented people say if we don't farm here another country will take it up so we need to farm. don't go and blame farmers in the ute thread and justify farmers in the EV thread

Do you read the posts? This isn't about blaming farmers. It is about inappropriate use by non-farmers.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2731331 20-Jun-2021 08:44

Batman:

utes are not planet killers. humans are.

farmers need utes for their dairy farm because we want steak milk and cheese

trucks need to transport stuff because humans need bread and fruits

planes and boats - because humans need to visit their kids, eat fish and buy EVs and iphones

don't blame the farmers and the ute.

last time i commented people say if we don't farm here another country will take it up so we need to farm. don't go and blame farmers in the ute thread and justify farmers in the EV thread

Good points. Id like us to cut back on beef meat and bovine milk. Plenty of lower methane producing alternatives.

It would be ideal to license ute owners to keep them where they are needed.

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#2731332 20-Jun-2021 08:46

Rikkitic:

Do you read the posts? This isn't about blaming farmers. It is about inappropriate use by non-farmers.

i thought some were

as for utes, sales are market driven - any human with money can choose to buy it or not. i smell tax ... (as already suggested by one or two)

mudguard

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#2731334 20-Jun-2021 09:01

I'd hazard a guess and say most utes are used like cars and that farmers use side by sides for most actual on farm work.

Rikkitic

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#2731337 20-Jun-2021 09:18

The farmers where I live use utes as utes. They are used to transport tools and fencing materials, firewood, feed, dogs, just about anything that can go into a ute bed. They are also used together with quads but not in place of them. They have many legitimate uses. Shopping trips and taking children to school in the city probably don't qualify.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2731344 20-Jun-2021 09:39

Oblivian:

This is not an isolated case. There are collages of the campaign vehicles being used last year showing how many of them drive them. Even in urban cases. The first man is given one regularly to tow boats etc for his side job.

Suddenly, they are an issue.

And in the case of McAnulty it made the news during the week and IMHO shows the major failing of the new policy.

"I'll upgrade my ute when it dies," he said in a media comment.

The problem is a a 24yr old diesel ute is spewing out huge levels of CO2 and other emissions at much greater levels than a modern equivalent. It'll also be a death trap on the road and probably has a 1 or 2 star safety rating. Quite simply it's exactly the type of vehicle that we don't want on the roads, and yet this new policy appears to be encourage people like McAnulty to keep an older vehicle rather than upgrading.

The EV policy is supposed to be self funding - with the assumption that enough people will still keep buying vehicles that are heavily taxed so that the subsidies can be given to EV owners. This in itself seems an incredibly stupid policy - on one hand you're telling people that you really really really want them to by an EV and are bribing them with a rebate, but on the other hand can't actually afford people to stop buying petrol or diesel vehicles because the scheme would implode. What happens if people just stop buying new vehicles and the scheme then has a funding shortfall?

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