Muppets on the road

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MikeB4
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#1385471 11-Sep-2015 10:01

mdooher:

Very unlikely, In the old days of Limited Speed Zones it was a simple matter to issue tickets like that, now it requires a court case and any decent defence lawyer will make proving it beyond reasonable doubt almost impossible.

By the way, I was once driving a Police car to a job at night in the poring rain on the Auckland motorway. I was doing about 70km/h because of the conditions. Some guy passed me in the outside lane going around 100. Even though I felt it was dangerous to go faster I would have had a hard time proving he couldn't.

Canterbury Uni did a very good study on this a while back.

A family ( not sons) received a ticket for similar in I think 2013, he was P* off but paid it. However the NZ Police are professional and tend to be lenient in these circumstances. It probably comes down to how you talk to the Officer if he/she pulls you in. Be a dick tp
them and they will be less likely to be lenient.

I guess what it all comes down to driving has with it large responsibilities and is a community activity, the public roads are not a play ground, to many Kiwis do not take driving seriously.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

trig42

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#1385475 11-Sep-2015 10:04

Most heavy trucks (I'm talking Artics) can easily do those speeds round corners, simply because of their weight, and amount of rubber on the road.

Follow a logging truck over the Napier Taupo, those guys (and others that do that road daily) know the road and what their trucks can do. a 65 corner they will happily take at 70-80.

A light truck (that you only need a class 2 for), slowing to at least the speed indicated is very good advice.

mdooher

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#1385481 11-Sep-2015 10:18

Interesting extract from Land Transport New Zealand Research Report 323, thanks Jase2985

In New Zealand, the driver’s perspective was articulated in a magazine article that questioned the reliability of the advisory speeds.
The author of the article argued that ‘a safety sign that enjoins us to take more care than we need to puts us at risk of taking less care than we ought to.
If a standard car can go around at 85 km/h with ease, the advisory sign should say so. Preaching safety by exaggerating risk just makes the foolhardy look foolish… it’s time they [the advisory speeds] were looked at and renumbered so that the warnings mean something again.’ (Calder 2003, p24).

Highlighting added by me

Matthew

trig42

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#1385484 11-Sep-2015 10:22

mdooher: Interesting extract from Land Transport New Zealand Research Report 323, thanks Jase2985

In New Zealand, the driver’s perspective was articulated in a magazine article that questioned the reliability of the advisory speeds.
The author of the article argued that ‘a safety sign that enjoins us to take more care than we need to puts us at risk of taking less care than we ought to.
If a standard car can go around at 85 km/h with ease, the advisory sign should say so. Preaching safety by exaggerating risk just makes the foolhardy look foolish… it’s time they [the advisory speeds] were looked at and renumbered so that the warnings mean something again.’ (Calder 2003, p24).

Highlighting added by me

I tend to agree. there are a lot of advisory signs that are perhaps unnecessary (the 85 and 95 k ones escpecially).
I find the 25 and 35 ones quite useful though.

mdooher

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#1385505 11-Sep-2015 10:52

trig42:
mdooher: Interesting extract from Land Transport New Zealand Research Report 323, thanks Jase2985

In New Zealand, the driver’s perspective was articulated in a magazine article that questioned the reliability of the advisory speeds.
The author of the article argued that ‘a safety sign that enjoins us to take more care than we need to puts us at risk of taking less care than we ought to.
If a standard car can go around at 85 km/h with ease, the advisory sign should say so. Preaching safety by exaggerating risk just makes the foolhardy look foolish… it’s time they [the advisory speeds] were looked at and renumbered so that the warnings mean something again.’ (Calder 2003, p24).

Highlighting added by me

I tend to agree. there are a lot of advisory signs that are perhaps unnecessary (the 85 and 95 k ones escpecially).
I find the 25 and 35 ones quite useful though.

I agree, the higher speed ones should only be on the deceptive bends. I think the proliferation of the speed signs has made us worse drivers. It has taken away the ability to judge a bend by the road queues.

When you are driving properly, say going through a gorge or on race track you should not be concerned with the numeric speed of the vehicle, rather you are looking at road ahead and the analogue computer in your head is calculating whether or not the car is going the right speed for the approaching bend.

If you see a 35 or 45km/h sign ahead it gives you plenty of time to brake before the bend and to perhaps glance at your speedo to make sure your perceived speed is at least close to reality.

They say men tend to approach driving as a sport, I think that's true. In my case I try to practice correct cornering techniques on every bend I go through. I don't necessarily try to get faster and faster, I try to get more and more accurate with the transition from one to the other and unlike racing I try to give the passengers and me the smoothest ride possible.

Matthew

trig42

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#1385509 11-Sep-2015 10:58

I do try and go through corners with what I perceive as a 'good line', start on the outside, hit the apex and end up wide and power on. I think that is the most comfortable way for passengers.

I don't know if that is the correct way to do it, but it 'feels' right to me.

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MikeB4

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#1385510 11-Sep-2015 11:00

mdooher: Interesting extract from Land Transport New Zealand Research Report 323, thanks Jase2985

In New Zealand, the driver’s perspective was articulated in a magazine article that questioned the reliability of the advisory speeds.
The author of the article argued that ‘a safety sign that enjoins us to take more care than we need to puts us at risk of taking less care than we ought to.
If a standard car can go around at 85 km/h with ease, the advisory sign should say so. Preaching safety by exaggerating risk just makes the foolhardy look foolish… it’s time they [the advisory speeds] were looked at and renumbered so that the warnings mean something again.’ (Calder 2003, p24).

Highlighting added by me

However (and I may very well be wrong here) but accident stats especially single car accidents are still very high in NZ. All to often I encounter cars crossing the center line in bends as their entry speed is too high causing their straight line momentum to continue.
It is the old adage, brake before its too late then power out of the bend, doing that you can better control the forces and you lose less overall speed, as it does seem that 2 and 3 seconds travel delays appear to be very important.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

mdooher

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#1385515 11-Sep-2015 11:17

trig42: I do try and go through corners with what I perceive as a 'good line', start on the outside, hit the apex and end up wide and power on. I think that is the most comfortable way for passengers.

I don't know if that is the correct way to do it, but it 'feels' right to me.

Remembering you are not on a race track, in general that's exactly what you should do. The hard habit to get over is drifting with your foot off the throttle into a curve. So (and again not talking about racing) assuming you hit the curve at the right speed you should have your foot on the throttle all the way around. If you suddenly get that stomach tightening "oh sh__" moment don't lift off. (If anything push down)

You will need to be accelerating because the extra friction caused by the turning movement of the car will wash off your speed, If you want to keep the suspension setup for the bend (better handling and more comfort) you at least need to overcome that loss of speed.

Matthew

mdooher

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#1385517 11-Sep-2015 11:19

MikeB4:
mdooher: Interesting extract from Land Transport New Zealand Research Report 323, thanks Jase2985

In New Zealand, the driver’s perspective was articulated in a magazine article that questioned the reliability of the advisory speeds.
The author of the article argued that ‘a safety sign that enjoins us to take more care than we need to puts us at risk of taking less care than we ought to.
If a standard car can go around at 85 km/h with ease, the advisory sign should say so. Preaching safety by exaggerating risk just makes the foolhardy look foolish… it’s time they [the advisory speeds] were looked at and renumbered so that the warnings mean something again.’ (Calder 2003, p24).

Highlighting added by me

However (and I may very well be wrong here) but accident stats especially single car accidents are still very high in NZ. All to often I encounter cars crossing the center line in bends as their entry speed is too high causing their straight line momentum to continue.
It is the old adage, brake before its too late then power out of the bend, doing that you can better control the forces and you lose less overall speed, as it does seem that 2 and 3 seconds travel delays appear to be very important.

20% of fatals and 13% of serious crashes happen in bends

Matthew

trig42

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#1385524 11-Sep-2015 11:33

mdooher:
trig42: I do try and go through corners with what I perceive as a 'good line', start on the outside, hit the apex and end up wide and power on. I think that is the most comfortable way for passengers.

I don't know if that is the correct way to do it, but it 'feels' right to me.

Remembering you are not on a race track, in general that's exactly what you should do. The hard habit to get over is drifting with your foot off the throttle into a curve. So (and again not talking about racing) assuming you hit the curve at the right speed you should have your foot on the throttle all the way around. If you suddenly get that stomach tightening "oh sh__" moment don't lift off. (If anything push down)

You will need to be accelerating because the extra friction caused by the turning movement of the car will wash off your speed, If you want to keep the suspension setup for the bend (better handling and more comfort) you at least need to overcome that loss of speed.

Yeah, I try and have power on throughout the whole bend, never turning the wheel and braking at the same time (hopefully I have downshifted enough or coasted down to an appropriate speed before hitting the corner). I try and use the brake pedal as little as possible (generally only on the 25-35k bends). If in an automatic, that is a little harder, but my current car it is easy (6-speed Mazda3 MPS).

mdooher

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#1385534 11-Sep-2015 11:47

trig42:
mdooher:
trig42: I do try and go through corners with what I perceive as a 'good line', start on the outside, hit the apex and end up wide and power on. I think that is the most comfortable way for passengers.

I don't know if that is the correct way to do it, but it 'feels' right to me.

Remembering you are not on a race track, in general that's exactly what you should do. The hard habit to get over is drifting with your foot off the throttle into a curve. So (and again not talking about racing) assuming you hit the curve at the right speed you should have your foot on the throttle all the way around. If you suddenly get that stomach tightening "oh sh__" moment don't lift off. (If anything push down)

You will need to be accelerating because the extra friction caused by the turning movement of the car will wash off your speed, If you want to keep the suspension setup for the bend (better handling and more comfort) you at least need to overcome that loss of speed.

Yeah, I try and have power on throughout the whole bend, never turning the wheel and braking at the same time (hopefully I have downshifted enough or coasted down to an appropriate speed before hitting the corner). I try and use the brake pedal as little as possible (generally only on the 25-35k bends). If in an automatic, that is a little harder, but my current car it is easy (6-speed Mazda3 MPS).

The hardest thing to do for me (which is why I used to practice so much) is on a motorcycle when that "Oh Sh__" moment happens, and you have to press that inside handlebar forward, and hope that the laws of physics haven't changed and that you can overcome the natural human reaction to do exactly the opposite.

Matthew

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MikeB4

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#1385560 11-Sep-2015 11:56

mdooher:

The hardest thing to do for me (which is why I used to practice so much) is on a motorcycle when that "Oh Sh__" moment happens, and you have to press that inside handlebar forward, and hope that the laws of physics haven't changed and that you can overcome the natural human reaction to do exactly the opposite.

I have a better method, I let my natural fear control the situation and I never get on a motorcycle. Did it once in my younger days and learnt the meaning of real terror. I admire folks that can ride and control those things. It baffles me how the Superbike racers can do it.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.