Nissan LEAF - General

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75 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12

#2510966 23-Jun-2020 20:36

Hi team, I'm checking out my first EV and wondering if this is an on par car.

https://www.hamiltonev.co.nz/vehicle/2014-nissan-leaf/38

I know it's a bit on the higher end of the pay scale at face value, but they do throw in a $600 charger, include ORC, full year rego and convert to English dash. As part of their "feel good" added value package you get free WoF checks for life (as long as they are still standing of course). They also promise a bunch of other stuff like road side assistance (for a year I think), free tyre repair and rotation etc.

They also include in their price a full year mechanical insurance.

As part of these guys no-obligation testing, I've pretty much been driving it around for a week and it's been absolutely smooth-sailing.

It's done low KM's and G spec, but looks like the previous owner was a fast charge addict so most likely a city car. I'm not sure if it's had enough time to adjust to NZ climate for SoH.

Is there anything standing out on this car I should be asking about? Or is there anything funky about the battery health?

Appreciate your feedback!

duckInferno

89 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 21

#2510987 23-Jun-2020 20:46

DumKopf:

Hi team, I'm checking out my first EV and wondering if this is an on par car.

https://www.hamiltonev.co.nz/vehicle/2014-nissan-leaf/38

I know it's a bit on the higher end of the pay scale at face value, but they do throw in a $600 charger, include ORC, full year rego and convert to English dash. As part of their "feel good" added value package you get free WoF checks for life (as long as they are still standing of course). They also promise a bunch of other stuff like road side assistance (for a year I think), free tyre repair and rotation etc.

They also include in their price a full year mechanical insurance.

As part of these guys no-obligation testing, I've pretty much been driving it around for a week and it's been absolutely smooth-sailing.

It's done low KM's and G spec, but looks like the previous owner was a fast charge addict so most likely a city car. I'm not sure if it's had enough time to adjust to NZ climate for SoH.

Is there anything standing out on this car I should be asking about? Or is there anything funky about the battery health?

Appreciate your feedback!

As I understand it, all NZ dealers are required by law to supply an NZ charger with the car.

Quick charging doesn't harm the battery, this is a myth.

The ad says 79% SOH but leaf spy shot says 83.18% - I'd look into that.

Scott3

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#2510997 23-Jun-2020 21:14

duckInferno:

As I understand it, all NZ dealers are required by law to supply an NZ charger with the car.

Quick charging doesn't harm the battery, this is a myth.

The ad says 79% SOH but leaf spy shot says 83.18% - I'd look into that.

While it is illegal to include the Japanese EVSE (charge cord) with the car due to it's voltage range not including 230v, There is no legal requirement for any EVSE to be included. Dealer can simply sell the car without an EVSE. (most do include one though)

Similar deal to a charger not being included with an ipod touch, or usb cable included with a (non networked printer).

Buyer can either use public DC charging, use an existing EVSE, or purchase an EVSE that suits their needs.

Regarding Quick Charging, There is evidence that it is more harmful, but that difference is not massive. There is a study done in Phoenix Arazona with 4 cars and a highly controlled testing. After 40,000miles the pair of cars that had been exclusively fast charged had lost 25% of battery capacity as opposed to 22% lost by the pair that had been slow charged.

Also rapidgate relates to the Fast Charging being slowed to a crawl when the pack is hot to avoid excessive pack harm on the 2nd generation Nissan Leaf.

duckInferno

89 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 21

#2511021 23-Jun-2020 21:42

The main take away for quick charging is that it doesn't matter when buying a car. If you're buying a car at 80% SOH then it doesn't matter whether it's done 1 quick charge or 1000, its history has gotten it to 80% SOH, the degradation (if any) is over with and you're free to never QC again if you like.

Scott3:

While it is illegal to include the Japanese EVSE (charge cord) with the car due to it's voltage range not including 230v, There is no legal requirement for any EVSE to be included. Dealer can simply sell the car without an EVSE. (most do include one though)

Good to know, thanks!

DumKopf

75 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12

#2511089 23-Jun-2020 22:40

Scott3:

Regarding Quick Charging, There is evidence that it is more harmful, but that difference is not massive. There is a study done in Phoenix Arazona with 4 cars and a highly controlled testing. After 40,000miles the pair of cars that had been exclusively fast charged had lost 25% of battery capacity as opposed to 22% lost by the pair that had been slow charged.

Also rapidgate relates to the Fast Charging being slowed to a crawl when the pack is hot to avoid excessive pack harm on the 2nd generation Nissan Leaf.

Good info, thanks!

DumKopf

75 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12

#2511092 23-Jun-2020 22:42

duckInferno:

The ad says 79% SOH but leaf spy shot says 83.18% - I'd look into that.

Good spotting! Will do.

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zenourn

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#2511097 23-Jun-2020 23:03

duckInferno:

The main take away for quick charging is that it doesn't matter when buying a car. If you're buying a car at 80% SOH then it doesn't matter whether it's done 1 quick charge or 1000, its history has gotten it to 80% SOH, the degradation (if any) is over with and you're free to never QC again if you like.

Unfortunately this isn't entirely true. A lot of QCs can be correlated with the battery becoming hotter which can causes a problem especially with the rear stack of modules. This can cause accelerated degradation in these cells which then places more strain on these modules as under normal use they have less capacity and hence get discharged more. Have seen numerous cases of this, and have continuous data collection in progress to fully model this process.

I didn't have enough data at the time to discuss this in https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/201803.0122/v1 but am planning to include this in an update.

Smix

111 posts

Master Geek
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#2511098 23-Jun-2020 23:07

The SoH will take a bit to settle down, and anecdotally you could lose up to 8%/lose a bar.

Tyres will probably be coming up for replacement at 45-50k, and are around $200/tyre if you go for Ecopia 300s.

Hamilton EVs seem to be recommended on the various NZ EV Facebook groups.

afe66

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#2511361 24-Jun-2020 11:38

A dealer than doesn't supply a charging cable should not be trusted enough to buy a car from.

DumKopf

75 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12

#2512522 25-Jun-2020 21:20

I’m signing up the Leaf in the coming days. As part of any purchase from Hamilton EV, they are giving me a charger, spare tyre and English conversion. I’ve asked them for an NZ map too as it sounds like that’ll fix the clock and radio channels?

Is there anything else I should ask to be thrown in or could be missing?

Appreciate your advice!

Disinfo

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Master Geek
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#2512714 26-Jun-2020 10:48

Smix:
The SoH will take a bit to settle down, and anecdotally you could lose up to 8%/lose a bar.

Or in my case roughly 6% and 2 bars (76-70% SoH, 11 to 9 bars). This is because the bars take a while to drop off if the car hasn't been used for a while.

GVI (where my car came from) has a lot of cars like this, for example 70% SoH but still showing 10 bars.

BTW check the condition of the tyres not just the tread levels, I ended up replacing the full set on my car because they were the originals and had gone rock hard and had no wet weather grip whatsoever (2011 date code EP150s so not surprising)

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paulchinnz

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#2512793 26-Jun-2020 12:49

Re the % per bar: https://flipthefleet.org/2017/nissan-leaf-check-your-battery-before-buying/

Dugimodo

168 posts

Master Geek
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#2512859 26-Jun-2020 13:47

A lot of the things I would advise you to check for were shown to me by the Hamilton EV guys as it happens.

Even though I didn't buy my leaf from them they were incredibly helpful to me and I actually kinda wish I had bought the car from them. They seem like a great company to deal with, and very enthusiastic about EVs.

The front suspension mounts are one thing you didn't mention, but I know Hamilton EVs is onto that issue. If you ask them about it they'll show you and explain better than I could.

After living with a Leaf for a year my main complaints are the honestly stupid design of the load space and the open road range which I couldn't live with if it was my only car.

For the load space complaint, fold the back seats down and imagine trying to fit a large chest in there. If that doesn't bother you then no problem but it's worse than most hatchbacks in that regard.

I made a false floor out of customwood for my leaf and mounted the spare wheel under it, even then the floor level is below the bumper due to how deep the boot is.

nofam

1094 posts

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#2512867 26-Jun-2020 13:59

Dugimodo:

A lot of the things I would advise you to check for were shown to me by the Hamilton EV guys as it happens.

Even though I didn't buy my leaf from them they were incredibly helpful to me and I actually kinda wish I had bought the car from them. They seem like a great company to deal with, and very enthusiastic about EVs.

The front suspension mounts are one thing you didn't mention, but I know Hamilton EVs is onto that issue. If you ask them about it they'll show you and explain better than I could.

After living with a Leaf for a year my main complaints are the honestly stupid design of the load space and the open road range which I couldn't live with if it was my only car.

For the load space complaint, fold the back seats down and imagine trying to fit a large chest in there. If that doesn't bother you then no problem but it's worse than most hatchbacks in that regard.

I made a false floor out of customwood for my leaf and mounted the spare wheel under it, even then the floor level is below the bumper due to how deep the boot is.

Completely agree. And the lack of hooks in the boot to stop your groceries from flying all over the show while you dive home. The dash controls for heating/cooling do my head in too frankly, but it's a minor complaint, when everything else is so nice.

nofam

1094 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 30

#2512868 26-Jun-2020 13:59

Dugimodo:

A lot of the things I would advise you to check for were shown to me by the Hamilton EV guys as it happens.

Even though I didn't buy my leaf from them they were incredibly helpful to me and I actually kinda wish I had bought the car from them. They seem like a great company to deal with, and very enthusiastic about EVs.

The front suspension mounts are one thing you didn't mention, but I know Hamilton EVs is onto that issue. If you ask them about it they'll show you and explain better than I could.

After living with a Leaf for a year my main complaints are the honestly stupid design of the load space and the open road range which I couldn't live with if it was my only car.

For the load space complaint, fold the back seats down and imagine trying to fit a large chest in there. If that doesn't bother you then no problem but it's worse than most hatchbacks in that regard.

I made a false floor out of customwood for my leaf and mounted the spare wheel under it, even then the floor level is below the bumper due to how deep the boot is.

Completely agree. And the lack of hooks in the boot to stop your groceries from flying all over the show while you drive home. The dash controls for heating/cooling do my head in too frankly, but it's a minor complaint, when everything else is so nice.

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