Changing lanes across bus lane to a turn left = FINE?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Changing lanes across bus lane to a turn left = FINE?

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#2410003 30-Jan-2020 09:39

I can only give networkn 1 +1😟

To quote the OP "The one block rule like Aus would make MUCH more sense." If you allow cars into the bus lane what does 50m do apart from reducing the queue if the left turning cars get stalled. If buses are that important give them an exclusive route.

TeaLeaf

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#2410018 30-Jan-2020 10:24

Bung: I can only give networkn 1 +1😟

To quote the OP "The one block rule like Aus would make MUCH more sense." If you allow cars into the bus lane what does 50m do apart from reducing the queue if the left turning cars get stalled. If buses are that important give them an exclusive route.

The one block is used in areas where that is not possible, which is pretty much what is happening at this intersection. They do have an entire lane, right to the lights. So you have to cross the bus lane at some point if turning left. Its mainly busy in peak hours of work. Im surprised I got in trouble for 11am on a weekend when there were no other cars in any of the 4 lanes from memory, Ive always crossed over, as you have to, clearly I crossed over "too soon". Is there a sign that indicates when is too soon? The PAINT is the best way to know? but that is at the end where the turn left lane is.....

TeaLeaf

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#2410024 30-Jan-2020 10:33

networkn:

If an intersection is gathering 100K in revenue and rates in the highest of all revenue stations NZ Wide, then it should be considered a poor design IMO. The majority of people, want to be compliant, therefore if so many people are running foul of it, the layout isn't clear enough, the road markings aren't good enough or something

EXACTLY

Im not arguing Ive now done something that use to be ok but has had cameras put in and without me knowing is now illegal (Oh im meant to try and look at all the signs which isnt dangerous). Thats how the big man works, sucker punches.

But if this is causing a major issue for people who are use to being able to get into that lane to be able to then turn left and a large majority are getting pinged for it. Its a BAD design AT, instead of being greedy, FIX the design.

As mentioned above if its that important create a Bus only lane and divert left hand turning traffic to turn right and have to find a you turn somewhere, maybe up Remers Rd, go into train Station, turn around come back down to the lights and turn right, only a 15min difference. lol

In all seriousness, its easy to come on here and be "RIGHT", if its not you. I guess thats what forums are like. But as many have pointed out, this is a major issue on this particular road and needs redesign.

As one of the "right" people pointed out, only way sometimes to do this "legally" would be to block the right hand lane in peak hour traffic until all the buses and the other naughty people turning left have cleared, yeah no thanks

kiwiharry

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#2410081 30-Jan-2020 11:17

TeaLeaf:

The one block is used in areas where that is not possible, which is pretty much what is happening at this intersection. They do have an entire lane, right to the lights. So you have to cross the bus lane at some point if turning left.

The image from streetview (assuming it is up to date) that @Scott3 posted doesn't show bus line right up until the lights. It stops opposite Osborne St, so about 85m before the lights. The bike lane looks like it goes right up to the lights.

If you can't laugh at yourself then you probably shouldn't laugh at others.

kharris

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#2410127 30-Jan-2020 12:30

Linux: I got a speed camera ticket last week in the post 54km in 50 zone $30 and just got another 2 just tonight on the same day 55 in 50km zone and 85 in 80km zone

$90 worth of tickets in 1 week

Given that the celebration of speedos means they read 3-4 km greater than your actual speed then your speedo was probably reading around 58km and 89 km respectively. Slow down a tiny bit... given the dynamics of traffic you'll still arrive at the same time.

Kirk

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#2410133 30-Jan-2020 12:47

sbiddle:

Batman:

i had a ticket for beating an orange light when i crossed the line when it was green

I did as well a few months ago. I was over the limit line and in the controlled area of the intersection on a green and the light changed to yellow after that and red before I exited the controlled area. The cop didn't seem to understand the law and I had no luck having the ticket waived despite my evidence very clearly showing I was not breaking the law.

It's the only time I really wished I had a dash cam. Dealing with the Police was incredibly frustrating and taking it to court and showing up with that really is the possible chance you've got of getting off a ticket as they'll just believe the officer all the time without compelling evidence such as video footage. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and pay despite knowing you've done nothing wrong.

You must not go into or attempt to cross the intersection, railway level crossing, pedestrian crossing or an area controlled by pedestrian traffic signals, unless there is space for your vehicle on the other side of the intersection or crossing.

Kirk

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richms

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#2410139 30-Jan-2020 12:51

kharris:

You must not go into or attempt to cross the intersection, railway level crossing, pedestrian crossing or an area controlled by pedestrian traffic signals, unless there is space for your vehicle on the other side of the intersection or crossing.

There are some incredibly short orange phases, and if you're turning right and dont want to spill your drinks etc and have to take it at a sensible speed, then its quite possible to cross the line on a green and leave on a red. There is one in glenfield by the maccas outside the mall that does short phases of green and then a really short orange where its almost certain that you will leave on a red even tho entering on a green.

Richard rich.ms

Handle9

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#2410239 30-Jan-2020 14:38

Bung: I can only give networkn 1 +1😟

To quote the OP "The one block rule like Aus would make MUCH more sense." If you allow cars into the bus lane what does 50m do apart from reducing the queue if the left turning cars get stalled. If buses are that important give them an exclusive route.

The point of the 50m rule is to allow you to use the bus lane to enter or exit an intersection.

In the OP case the bus lane isn't within 50 metres of the intersection so you can't drive in the bus lane at all.

Handle9

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#2410248 30-Jan-2020 14:45

networkn:
If an intersection is gathering 100K in revenue and rates in the highest of all revenue stations NZ Wide, then it should be considered a poor design IMO. The majority of people, want to be compliant, therefore if so many people are running foul of it, the layout isn't clear enough, the road markings aren't good enough or something.

The alternative explanation is that it's an intersection that has slot of traffic, and a lot of people get impatient so decide to "sneak" down the bus lane. This type of behaviour is incredibly common (eg red light running, going down the wrong lane and merging illegally) and not actively enforced in many places.. When people are either ignorant of the law, like the OP, or routinely knowingly break the law then they get caught in the few places that do enforce the law.

networkn

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#2410250 30-Jan-2020 14:49

Handle9:
networkn:

If an intersection is gathering 100K in revenue and rates in the highest of all revenue stations NZ Wide, then it should be considered a poor design IMO. The majority of people, want to be compliant, therefore if so many people are running foul of it, the layout isn't clear enough, the road markings aren't good enough or something.

The alternative explanation is that it's an intersection that has slot of traffic, and a lot of people get impatient so decide to "sneak" down the bus lane. This type of behaviour is incredibly common (eg red light running, going down the wrong lane and merging illegally) and not actively enforced in many places.. When people are either ignorant of the law, like the OP, or routinely knowingly break the law then they get caught in the few places that do enforce the law.

I don't believe that is the case for this intersection. It's busy, but most people I see, are confused by the layout. There are plenty of busy roads in NZ, I have never been pinged twice in a road ever in my life. I didn't either time "sneak" down any bus lane.

atomeara

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#2410256 30-Jan-2020 14:54

I'm a bit confused is this down the bottom on Kyhber Pass where it goes into Broadway?

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scuwp

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#2410265 30-Jan-2020 15:22

richms:

kharris:

You must not go into or attempt to cross the intersection, railway level crossing, pedestrian crossing or an area controlled by pedestrian traffic signals, unless there is space for your vehicle on the other side of the intersection or crossing.

There are some incredibly short orange phases, and if you're turning right and dont want to spill your drinks etc and have to take it at a sensible speed, then its quite possible to cross the line on a green and leave on a red. There is one in glenfield by the maccas outside the mall that does short phases of green and then a really short orange where its almost certain that you will leave on a red even tho entering on a green.

The law says you are not allowed to "enter" and intersection on a red light, it says nothing about leaving an intersection. You are perfectly entitled to enter an intersection on a green light and then leave if the light then turn red PROVIDED your exit is not blocked by stationary traffic. A prime example is making a right turn where there is no right turn arrow and lots of oncoming traffic. You can move into the intersection on a green light, then complete your turn after the lights have turned red and the oncoming traffic have stopped.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2410274 30-Jan-2020 15:38

Handle9:

In the OP case the bus lane isn't within 50 metres of the intersection so you can't drive in the bus lane at all.

The regulations actually state "drives in the lane for the minimum length necessary to complete the manoeuvre and for no more than a maximum length of 50 m;".

If traffic were backed up as far as the bus lane, it could be argued that it was necessary to use it to complete the turn. Provided you didn't enter more than 50m from the end of the bus lane, and gave way to busses as is also a requirement, the distance from the bus lane to the intersection is irrelevant.

There are many cases where impatient Auckland drivers use the bus lane, causing it to back up at the intersection. It is far safer to join the queue at the end than to try and enter closer to the intersection. Those same impatient drivers who drove down the bus lane aren't likely to be the kind who want to let you in.

Handle9

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#2410278 30-Jan-2020 15:48

SirHumphreyAppleby:
Handle9:

In the OP case the bus lane isn't within 50 metres of the intersection so you can't drive in the bus lane at all.

The regulations actually state "drives in the lane for the minimum length necessary to complete the manoeuvre and for no more than a maximum length of 50 m;".

If traffic were backed up as far as the bus lane, it could be argued that it was necessary to use it to complete the turn. Provided you didn't enter more than 50m from the end of the bus lane, and gave way to busses as is also a requirement, the distance from the bus lane to the intersection is irrelevant.

There are many cases where impatient Auckland drivers use the bus lane, causing it to back up at the intersection. It is far safer to join the queue at the end than to try and enter closer to the intersection. Those same impatient drivers who drove down the bus lane aren't likely to be the kind who want to let you in.

Good luck arguing that one. In heavy traffic it's not so much a safety issue (the traffic will be low speed) as a behavioral issue (New Zealanders refusal to let people in).

Bung

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#2410285 30-Jan-2020 16:21

scuwp: You can move into the intersection on a green light, then complete your turn after the lights have turned red and the oncoming traffic have stopped.

I know this is frequently done but does it comply with the rule of not entering an intersection if the exit is blocked? Locally we have one very wide intersection where there is actually a designated spot for 1 car to wait for oncoming traffic to clear but I think worst case a car could stay there without blocking cross traffic. This used to work nicely years ago when through traffic stopped on amber but now so many just keep coming.

The section of the traffic control manual dealing with light timing hasn't been published online yet. While searching for info on light phasing I came across an NZ example of an intersection that relied on a legal ambiguity to operate and a case of an Auckland traffic engineer caught by a short phased amber and fined while protesting, biter bit as they say.

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