EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2742361 11-Jul-2021 11:17

A better comparison, just need to triple the Tesla fuel cost. yes, I know RUC is free right now, but thats temporary and artificial, so not an equal comparison.

Perhaps a comparison between a like for like brand in the general consumer market. Say 60k or less. If they can be close then thats the best comparison thereby avoiding the subjective argument.

RobDickinson

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#2742363 11-Jul-2021 11:20

RUC exempt for another ~3 years at least. deal with it. Thats todays reality.

I am using a conservative cost for the electricity and your unlikely to get the manufacturers stated efficiency on the petrol car, plus it will need annual servicing and parts too.

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#2742364 11-Jul-2021 11:28

RobDickinson:

RUC exempt for another ~3 years at least. deal with it. Thats todays reality.

I am using a conservative cost for the electricity and your unlikely to get the manufacturers stated efficiency on the petrol car, plus it will need annual servicing and parts too.

Deal with it lol?. C'mon. Its an artificial metric. If artificial reductions of real world costs are needed to justify it, well, ok...

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#2742368 11-Jul-2021 11:42

tdgeek:

You can argue that BMW/Audi are superior quality cars to a Toyota. It depends if you feel Tesla as the same quality as a BMW/Audi, thats very arguable. Not talking specs, talking quality

I owned a (used) 5 Series previous to my Model 3 and I test drove a 3 Series. I don't think the BMW has any quality wins over the Tesla. I also have no doubts that the overall build quality will see the Tesla last longer than the BMW. BMW's these days seem to be a "drive it to 100,000km and then throw it away" type of car.

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RobDickinson

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#2742370 11-Jul-2021 11:45

tdgeek:

RobDickinson:

RUC exempt for another ~3 years at least. deal with it. Thats todays reality.

I am using a conservative cost for the electricity and your unlikely to get the manufacturers stated efficiency on the petrol car, plus it will need annual servicing and parts too.

Deal with it lol?. C'mon. Its an artificial metric. If artificial reductions of real world costs are needed to justify it, well, ok...

You are making predictions on something at least 3 years away.

Do you think RUC and tax will be structured to make evs as or more expensive to run in 3 years time?

Obraik

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#2742371 11-Jul-2021 11:45

tdgeek:

Deal with it lol?. C'mon. Its an artificial metric. If artificial reductions of real world costs are needed to justify it, well, ok...

Until the government gives an idea of how RUC will work for EVs in 2024 it's pointless arguing what it would cost with RUC because it seems pretty clear that the model of RUC that we have today will be changing.

However, even with todays RUC rates, my Model 3 is cheaper to run than the diesel 5 Series I mentioned previously.

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#2742384 11-Jul-2021 12:44

RobDickinson:

You are making predictions on something at least 3 years away.

Do you think RUC and tax will be structured to make evs as or more expensive to run in 3 years time?

Prediction, yes, you are correct. BUT no RUC as a false cost benefit is also correct.

Its expected that RUC will change as its harder to charge EV and especially hybrids. Ultimately all road users need to pay to maintain the roads. If we assume RUC is levied on EV's it does not make them more expensive to run. it just means the cost that existed and was intentionally not charged to EV users as a temporary incentive. Should it return, its no different to diesel and ICE users.

Level playing field.Thats the point. If you say EV are good for climate, and save 50% of fuel costs (which includes RUC) and servicing is less, then they should sell themselves. But they are too expensive so here is a subsidy and for a few years you can have RUC for free. Thats a level playing field when you compare costs.Full disclosure of the actual costs, and of the temporary savings which you can enjoy for now.

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#2742385 11-Jul-2021 12:49

Obraik:

Until the government gives an idea of how RUC will work for EVs in 2024 it's pointless arguing what it would cost with RUC because it seems pretty clear that the model of RUC that we have today will be changing.

However, even with todays RUC rates, my Model 3 is cheaper to run than the diesel 5 Series I mentioned previously.

If you mean hide from RUC to look better, fine. Yes, with RUC your EV is still better off, by about 50% to ICE, a bit less for diesel, but ist all savings, which no oe is complaining about.

If RUC changes, that will recover the same road maintenance revenue as they do now one would assume. Divided by all road users, as they do now.

Obraik

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#2742388 11-Jul-2021 13:15

tdgeek:

If you mean hide from RUC to look better, fine. Yes, with RUC your EV is still better off, by about 50% to ICE, a bit less for diesel, but ist all savings, which no oe is complaining about.

If RUC changes, that will recover the same road maintenance revenue as they do now one would assume. Divided by all road users, as they do now.

The fact that you have to assume highlights how pointless it is to talk about how much it will cost to run an EV with RUC included. We don't know what RUC for an EV will be in 2024...and we don't know what RUC will be for an ICE vehicle at that point to compare against either.

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MarkH67

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#2742391 11-Jul-2021 13:23

tdgeek:

If you mean hide from RUC to look better, fine. Yes, with RUC your EV is still better off, by about 50% to ICE, a bit less for diesel, but ist all savings, which no oe is complaining about.

If RUC changes, that will recover the same road maintenance revenue as they do now one would assume. Divided by all road users, as they do now.

Back to reality:

If you are considering buying that BMW then the reality is that you could save $16k if you chose to buy a Tesla Model 3 SR instead. You would also save a lot on fuel/energy costs over the next 3 years. You would save plenty on repairs & servicing costs for the life of the vehicle. After 3 years the running costs may go up, but the Tesla is still likely to be cheaper to run.

Yes, you could opt for the BMW if you think it is a car you would prefer to drive. But on a costs comparison you will be out of pocket by over $20k within the first 3 years, so you should consider that before making a purchase.

tdgeek

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#2742393 11-Jul-2021 13:41

MarkH67:

Back to reality:

If you are considering buying that BMW then the reality is that you could save $16k if you chose to buy a Tesla Model 3 SR instead. You would also save a lot on fuel/energy costs over the next 3 years. You would save plenty on repairs & servicing costs for the life of the vehicle. After 3 years the running costs may go up, but the Tesla is still likely to be cheaper to run.

Yes, you could opt for the BMW if you think it is a car you would prefer to drive. But on a costs comparison you will be out of pocket by over $20k within the first 3 years, so you should consider that before making a purchase.

If the quality of both are similar. Servicing will be free as it would be 5 years with free servicing. Petrol may well go up, yes. . Electricity may well go up, also. Even if RUC resumed in 2024, the Tesla will still be cheaper to run as fuel will still be half cost. Is a Made in China Tesla the same as a BMW or another upmarket brand?

Depreciation, as EVs reduce in price to parity, a lot more to lose there. In any case I have no interest in an ICE beamer or a Tesla, I'd look at brands I prefer and where the EV price is close-ish to parity

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#2742394 11-Jul-2021 13:43

Obraik:

The fact that you have to assume highlights how pointless it is to talk about how much it will cost to run an EV with RUC included. We don't know what RUC for an EV will be in 2024...and we don't know what RUC will be for an ICE vehicle at that point to compare against either.

Id rather assume where RUC may go in the future than pretend that fuel costs exclude a temporary incentive. Whose misleading who?

RobDickinson

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#2742414 11-Jul-2021 14:11

I'll make you a new graphic in April 2024...

Obraik

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#2742417 11-Jul-2021 14:25

tdgeek:

Id rather assume where RUC may go in the future than pretend that fuel costs exclude a temporary incentive. Whose misleading who?

I'm not saying you're misleading anyone. I'm just saying it's a pointless thing to bring up at the moment when a lot can change in three years. There's a lot of factors in this equation that could/will change in the next three years.

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mattwnz

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#2742487 11-Jul-2021 15:32

Obraik:

tdgeek:

You can argue that BMW/Audi are superior quality cars to a Toyota. It depends if you feel Tesla as the same quality as a BMW/Audi, thats very arguable. Not talking specs, talking quality

I owned a (used) 5 Series previous to my Model 3 and I test drove a 3 Series. I don't think the BMW has any quality wins over the Tesla. I also have no doubts that the overall build quality will see the Tesla last longer than the BMW. BMW's these days seem to be a "drive it to 100,000km and then throw it away" type of car.

Don't petrol cars have a potentially longer life though? In 15 years time, you will still get about the same range from the BMW filling it up with gas, as you would when it was new. The same wouldn't apply with a battery powered EV would it? Likewise is it even economic to replace batteries on EVs? A 15 year EV is probably worth very little when factoring in needing to replace the battery. Whereas a 15 year old petrol car should still have an okay value.

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