EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2742928 12-Jul-2021 11:45

Scott3:

That's a bit of a stretch.

The F-150 Lightning isn't yet shipping, I don't think ford is building production vehicles yet. Deliveries aren't expected until March - June 2022.
It's not going to be build in RHD, so not relevant for NZ anyway.
It's not the same price as a ranger. Ranger in the USA starts from USD25,070. F150 Lightning starts from USD39,974. (As a rough rule of thumb double the USD price to find the NZD price after GST, freight, small market premium, CGA costs etc. If the F150 lightning was to be built in RHD and sold here it would be roughly NZ$80k - $180k depending on spec level). It will be in hot demand, and it seems EV makers tend to only make high spec versions available early in production too.
Higher spec ranger's are only 300kg from the 3500kg GVM threshold of light vehicles. Weight penality in long range EV utes is going to be well over 300kg, so manufactures will need to chose between eating into payload, or clasifing the vehicle as a heavy vehicle (90km/h speed limit, COF etc)
We don't yet know if ford has the ability to supply this vehicle in decent volumes.

As I mentioned, I don't think the Lightning will be coming here but Ford has said that the platform will be used for their other vehicles, including the Ranger. The $US39k entry price for the Lightning is the same price as the Model 3 SR+, which goes for NZ$67k here. There are many popular Ranger SKU's that well exceed that currently.

Yes, there is an assumption that Ford knows what they're doing and will be able to keep up with demand. They seem to be doing an ok job with the Mach-E, as a benchmark.

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RobDickinson

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#2742942 12-Jul-2021 11:47

I doubt ford will make a lot of f-150s until their JV battery plant is finished in 2025 or so.

They are just getting a foot into the ev ute market for now, its not meant to be a big thing.

tdgeek

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#2742943 12-Jul-2021 11:50

Scott3:

There is also the option of waiting and using current vehicles until more efficient utes come to market. Ranger PHEV is expected late 2022 to early 2023. Toyota NZ hope to bring a hilux hybrid (not plug in) to the market by the end of 2021.

Thats already happening, orders for Rangers and Hiluxes are through the roof, getting in pre tax. Others will stretch the life out of the vehicle. No help for the feebate or climate change. When these new ones hit the road, that pushes out the replacement which would be the EV.

I come from a farm, re the fee free options you mentioned, 2 litre diesels LOL will not cut it. But yeah many tradies dont need what they drive, but some do, but they are reacting as above anyway. I don't think the blanket coverage helps adoption or buy in much, just creates aggravation

HarmLessSolutions

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#2742944 12-Jul-2021 11:51

Obraik:

As I mentioned, I don't think the Lightning will be coming here but Ford has said that the platform will be used for their other vehicles, including the Ranger. The $US39k entry price for the Lightning is the same price as the Model 3 SR+, which goes for NZ$67k here. There are many popular Ranger SKU's that well exceed that currently.

Yes, there is an assumption that Ford knows what they're doing and will be able to keep up with demand. The seem to be doing an ok job with the Mach-E, as a benchmark.

There is an inequity to be considered when comparing US prices for those two vehicles. Ford has a distribution network which will add cost onto their vehicle into the NZ market, which Tesla doesn't have due to their direct marketing model.

Also the Tesla Model 3 is Chinese manufacture whereas Ford would be shipping ex-US production facilities for the meantime at least.

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RobDickinson

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#2742945 12-Jul-2021 11:59

tdgeek:Thats already happening, orders for Rangers and Hiluxes are through the roof, getting in pre tax. Others will stretch the life out of the vehicle. No help for the feebate or climate change. When these new ones hit the road, that pushes out the replacement which would be the EV.

I come from a farm, re the fee free options you mentioned, 2 litre diesels LOL will not cut it. But yeah many tradies dont need what they drive, but some do, but they are reacting as above anyway. I don't think the blanket coverage helps adoption or buy in much, just creates aggravation

I wonder if those orders can be fulfilled as many production lines are being shut down

And a modern 2 litre diesel is plenty powerful enough to do what you need in 2021 (213 PS/HP,500 Nm).

Technofreak

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#2742952 12-Jul-2021 12:03

Scott3:

Technofreak:

Just because they are being tested in the South Island dosen't mean they're coming here. A lot of manufacturers do their winter testing in the South Island on models they never import for sale into the New Zealand market.

Our sales numbers are to the right of the decimal point for manufacturers. Setting up a support network for your product in a market that small doesn't make economic sense till you are well established in markets that will produce much better economies of scale.

Sadly we will get what we're given when we're given it.

It's confirmed for Australia

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/112233308/rivian-electric-ute-confirmed-for-australia

Its widely expected NZ will piggy back of them. (to date NZ has done pretty well in EV sales vs Australia even ignoring the population difference).

As others have said, it is firmly pitched as a lifestyle rather than work vehicle. Lowish payload (800kg), short bed, crazy good performance, very high price.

More likely to be a range rover competitor than a ranger competitor, but possibly could tempt some raptor and dodge ram 1500 buyers with it's epic acceleration.

Yes, confirmed but without any date commitment.

My take out from that article is the Rivian engineer didn't want to disappoint or dampen enthusiasm for the product in Australia so he had to say it was confirmed for Oz, but with out any potential dates his statement means nothing really. When pressed for more details on the release date for Australia he was very cagey.

As for the comments that being electric makes it easier to make either left hand or right hand versions. That makes no sense.

Being a US product right hand drive vehicles will be a secondary priority. Plus as you and other have said it is very much aimed at the lifestyle market. That market isn't currently the main Ute market in New Zealand.

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RobDickinson

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#2742953 12-Jul-2021 12:06

RHD cars will be sold into UK too etc. Probably more so the R1S rather than the R1t tho. not heaps of difference.

They've not yet delivered a car in USA but are supposed to this month

Technofreak

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#2742955 12-Jul-2021 12:08

RobDickinson:

tdgeek:Thats already happening, orders for Rangers and Hiluxes are through the roof, getting in pre tax. Others will stretch the life out of the vehicle. No help for the feebate or climate change. When these new ones hit the road, that pushes out the replacement which would be the EV.

I come from a farm, re the fee free options you mentioned, 2 litre diesels LOL will not cut it. But yeah many tradies dont need what they drive, but some do, but they are reacting as above anyway. I don't think the blanket coverage helps adoption or buy in much, just creates aggravation

I wonder if those orders can be fulfilled as many production lines are being shut down

And a modern 2 litre diesel is plenty powerful enough to do what you need in 2021 (213 PS/HP,500 Nm).

Powerful enough? Yes. But usable power where it's needed lugging slowly up and down hills in the back country? Negotiating muddy gateways and steep tracks. Possibly not. A N/A diesel is probably better suited to the job on a lot of farms.

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RobDickinson

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#2742956 12-Jul-2021 12:10

Vehicles have gearboxes these days still??

RobDickinson

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#2742959 12-Jul-2021 12:21

Back to the model 3 (or similar priced EV) - am I right in thinking as a business buyer you can claim GST back so the SR+ would be just under $50k to buy ( ing GST removal and rebate).

And you can claim 14,000 worth of mileage at $0.79c, $11,000 a year (minus around $400 in electricity..)?

Scott3

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#2742976 12-Jul-2021 12:33

tdgeek:

Scott3:

There is also the option of waiting and using current vehicles until more efficient utes come to market. Ranger PHEV is expected late 2022 to early 2023. Toyota NZ hope to bring a hilux hybrid (not plug in) to the market by the end of 2021.

Thats already happening, orders for Rangers and Hiluxes are through the roof, getting in pre tax. Others will stretch the life out of the vehicle. No help for the feebate or climate change. When these new ones hit the road, that pushes out the replacement which would be the EV.

I come from a farm, re the fee free options you mentioned, 2 litre diesels LOL will not cut it. But yeah many tradies dont need what they drive, but some do, but they are reacting as above anyway. I don't think the blanket coverage helps adoption or buy in much, just creates aggravation

To be fair orders of these vehicles were sky high before the feebate announcement too, so just another boost on top of that.

Regarding engine size, as you are likely aware ford's a 2.0L diesel is currently fords flagship engine in the ranger (top selling ute). making more power and torque than the older 3.2L engine option. Drive reviews seem to rate the 2.0 Biturbo (with matching many speed auto) over the 3.2L for heavy towing and the likes. It is likely that ford would discontinue the 3.2 engine option in the next few years regardless of the feebate sceheme.

The engine in the 2.0L ford Ecoblue in makes 125kW and 405 Nm. Similar ballpark to the 130kW and 420Nm of a 2018 hilux, and far more than most of the utes 15 - 20 years back. I'm interested if there is any farming task a 125kW ute is is unsuitable for (that a 150kW Ute would be suitable for). Many farmers seem to be using 80's and 90's era ute's with far less power than this without issue.

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Delphinus

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#2743025 12-Jul-2021 12:39

Technofreak:

RobDickinson:

And a modern 2 litre diesel is plenty powerful enough to do what you need in 2021 (213 PS/HP,500 Nm).

Powerful enough? Yes. But usable power where it's needed lugging slowly up and down hills in the back country? Negotiating muddy gateways and steep tracks. Possibly not. A N/A diesel is probably better suited to the job on a lot of farms.

Serious question, how many farmers would take their brand new utes in places a 2L diesel couldn't make it? Based on my experience farmers typically use things like a side-by-side for the rough stuff. Even my 2WD ute would be able to get though most farm tracks.

tdgeek

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#2743027 12-Jul-2021 12:48

RobDickinson:

tdgeek:Thats already happening, orders for Rangers and Hiluxes are through the roof, getting in pre tax. Others will stretch the life out of the vehicle. No help for the feebate or climate change. When these new ones hit the road, that pushes out the replacement which would be the EV.

I come from a farm, re the fee free options you mentioned, 2 litre diesels LOL will not cut it. But yeah many tradies dont need what they drive, but some do, but they are reacting as above anyway. I don't think the blanket coverage helps adoption or buy in much, just creates aggravation

I wonder if those orders can be fulfilled as many production lines are being shut down

And a modern 2 litre diesel is plenty powerful enough to do what you need in 2021 (213 PS/HP,500 Nm).

For God's sake

tdgeek

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#2743029 12-Jul-2021 12:51

Scott3:

Regarding engine size, as you are likely aware ford's a 2.0L diesel is currently fords flagship engine in the ranger (top selling ute). making more power and torque than the older 3.2L engine option. Drive reviews seem to rate the 2.0 Biturbo (with matching many speed auto) over the 3.2L for heavy towing and the likes. It is likely that ford would discontinue the 3.2 engine option in the next few years regardless of the feebate sceheme.

The engine in the 2.0L ford Ecoblue in makes 125kW and 405 Nm. Similar ballpark to the 130kW and 420Nm of a 2018 hilux, and far more than most of the utes 15 - 20 years back. I'm interested if there is any farming task a 125kW ute is is unsuitable for (that a 150kW Ute would be suitable for). Many farmers seem to be using 80's and 90's era ute's with far less power than this without issue.

Not every farm is a market garden

RobDickinson

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#2743030 12-Jul-2021 12:54

tdgeek:

Not every farm is a market garden

mkay time to put up and shut up. show one example of one of the 2.0 turbo fords not making it where an old 3.2 vehicle would.

just one.

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