RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

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MikeB4
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#3183127 17-Jan-2024 14:39

I hope Seymour doesn't discover that he will want to introduce that nonsense here. The only time on go on the road with the mobility scooter or electric wheel chair is when I risk life and limb to cross the road.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

BlakJak

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#3183146 17-Jan-2024 15:10

MikeB4:
We purchased a PHEV with a desire to be as electrified as possible but still giving certainty. My disabilities mean that it is vital to my wellbeing that the vehicle is available 100% and a PHEV met that criteria. Approximately +/-70% of the time the vehicle is running on pure EV. With the new charges I will be paying RUCs+GST+excise on the Petrol. RUCs +GST on the electricity along with Insurance +GST, Registration and WOF+GST.

I can reduce the costs considerably by dropping the PHEV and buying a pure ICE vehicle. The government has by actions told us we don't need to care about the planet.

Really? You've done the total-cost-of-ownership math, or are you just annoyed?

If you've done the math, lay out the numbers. I'm keen to see them.

I can't see how a PHEV TCO could be any higher than ICE TCO ... (and if it does, then i'd agree that this is a backwards step)

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Dingbatt

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#3183149 17-Jan-2024 15:58

MikeB4:

I hope Seymour doesn't discover that he will want to introduce that nonsense here. The only time on go on the road with the mobility scooter or electric wheel chair is when I risk life and limb to cross the road.

What’s Seymour got to do with it? (Personal politics aside)

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mudguard

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#3183150 17-Jan-2024 16:00

I know it's come up in this thread before, but it's not so much the user pays aspect, it is just the faff involved. Pay, post, put in windscreen. Repeat.

The thread is long because there isn't an elegant answer. Maybe just ditch it altogether and take it out of somewhere else. I don't know where. Probably from PAYE income tax.

BlakJak

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#3183154 17-Jan-2024 16:08

mudguard:
I know it's come up in this thread before, but it's not so much the user pays aspect, it is just the faff involved. Pay, post, put in windscreen. Repeat.

The thread is long because there isn't an elegant answer. Maybe just ditch it altogether and take it out of somewhere else. I don't know where. Probably from PAYE income tax.

It's already been mentioned that alternative mainline tax sources are probably not equitable. It's fair to transfer the costs to those who use them, and costs based on k's driven makes the most sense.

So you're right that it's probably not elegant. But commercial operators and diesel owners have been used to RUC for a long time, it's an existing system and something readily adapted, and I think most people are, as you say, just pissed off at 'new faff'.

But much like rego, you do it online, you use your CC, and you wait for the postal system to deliver the display slip. It's not really a lot of time or energy to do that.

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MikeB4

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#3183155 17-Jan-2024 16:09

@BlakJak I am annoyed as the regime was to encourage the conversion from ICE to EV for the sake of the planet. Clearly the current government doesn't care about the future so why should I fork out more money to a lost cause.

I am not going to post my financials here, 1. I only have the ability to type one handed (more like half a hand) due to disability. 2. not posting my financials on a public forum. I paid a premium for the PHEV, infrastructure at home to provide power. Add in costs now added to running and the inevitable tanking of the resale value of PHEVs the governments shortsighted knee jerk to appease an idiot has screwed many both living and those who will be born in hell.

I wont be surprised if they can wind generation in favour of coal generation and add taxes to public transport.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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MikeB4

MikeB4
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#3183157 17-Jan-2024 16:12

Dingbatt:

What’s Seymour got to do with it? (Personal politics aside)

Seymour like all right-wing politicians, he hates the planet

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

johno1234

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#3183158 17-Jan-2024 16:24

MikeB4:

Dingbatt:

What’s Seymour got to do with it? (Personal politics aside)

Seymour like all right-wing politicians, he hates the planet

I think we need to step back from ludicrous political hyperbole and start talking about equitable funding for roads again.

BlakJak

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#3183160 17-Jan-2024 16:27

MikeB4:
@BlakJak I am annoyed as the regime was to encourage the conversion from ICE to EV for the sake of the planet. Clearly the current government doesn't care about the future so why should I fork out more money to a lost cause.

I am not going to post my financials here, 1. I only have the ability to type one handed (more like half a hand) due to disability. 2. not posting my financials on a public forum. I paid a premium for the PHEV, infrastructure at home to provide power. Add in costs now added to running and the inevitable tanking of the resale value of PHEVs the governments shortsighted knee jerk to appease an idiot has screwed many both living and those who will be born in hell.

I wont be surprised if they can wind generation in favour of coal generation and add taxes to public transport.

So you're generally grumpy because of some unsubstantiated assumptions you've made but when challenged to substantiate them you can't. Gotcha.

I'm not asking for your bank statements, just a snapshot of how your total cost of ownership has changed now that you'll have to pay per km for RUC in addition to the tax applied to the petrol you buy.

The conversion encouragement was always going to be temporary, so throwing out statements like "Clearly the current government doesn't care about the future" is a bit unfair. It's more fair for everyone to be contributing to the cost of operating the roading network.

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nova

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#3183165 17-Jan-2024 17:00

MikeB4:

@BlakJak I am annoyed as the regime was to encourage the conversion from ICE to EV for the sake of the planet. Clearly the current government doesn't care about the future so why should I fork out more money to a lost cause.

I agree the interim PHEV treatment is unfair, and I think the RUC system in generally is based on non fuel efficient vehicles. It is unfair that someone with an ICE car that does 5 litres per 100km pays less tax than an equally efficient diesel car ( or an EV or PHEV), but it was also unfair that an EV has been paying nothing for the last several years.

However this fairness problem goes away once RUC are introduced for all vehicles, and everyone pays the same share. I would expect to see a reduction in the RUC per km charge when this happens, but who knows if this will actually happen. Hopefully they also reduce the ridiculous $12 admin fee, I don't see why this is that much more expensive than the standard vehicle licensing, and it could potentially be done at the same time through the same system once it applies to all vehicles.

Blaming this all on the current government is a little uncalled for. When I bought my EV 5 years ago I knew that the exemption was scheduled to end, and expected it to have ended before now when I did the financial modelling. RUCs for PHEV's did put me off buying a PHEV when I was considering it more recently, and that disincentive goes away once RUCs apply to all vehicles.

trig42

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#3183166 17-Jan-2024 17:01

I went from a Sportage Diesel to an MG4

I drive about 500km a week.

In the Sportage, on that drive, I was getting 6.4L/100km, so that is $64 of Diesel (if I can find it at $2/L - it's around that) and $38 of RUCs, so $102/week

The MG, I charge at home on off peak rates. I get about 14.5kWh/100km - 72.5kWh @ 0.189/kWh incl GST is $13.70 plus $38 of RUCs to come makes it $51.70 - about half price.

Of course I'd rather not pay RUCs, but I knew they were coming when I bought the car and I'm still saving on the weekly transport costs (yes, yes, I still have to pay for the car, but that's Interest free ;))

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Dingbatt

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#3183171 17-Jan-2024 17:12

The breakeven point for petrol vs BEVs in contribution to “road taxes” (as an all encompassing term to cover RUC and FET) would appear to be vehicles that use about 9l/100km. That is probably about what a reasonably modern family SUV burns at the moment. Not the manufacturer’s figures, the real world ones. So, as has been pointed out, the real winners at the moment are the (non plugin) hybrids. They won’t actually be paying any less from April 1, it’s just others will be paying more.

If I fill up at a Tesla Supercharger @ 85c/kWh (11c/km) and pay 7.6c/km “road tax”, then it costs me 18.6c/km to run. Fill up from home and it’s 11.6c/km.

The Camry Hybrid the Model 3 replaced did 5.2l/100km year in, year out. So at the current local petrol price* ($2.54) that equates to 13.2c/km, of which 4.4c/km is “road tax”.

What it really brings home to me is how much owners of small, frugal diesel cars have been getting ripped off by RUCs compared to petrol cars.

*Gull 91.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Stu

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#3183175 17-Jan-2024 17:19

All of this chatter suggesting it would be fairer if all vehicles paid RUC and to remove it from the price of dinosaur juice, is asking for trouble. There is already non-compliance with people registering cars and obtaining a WOF, and adding a requirement to also pay RUC separately is going mean yet one more thing people avoid complying with. Also, people who struggle to put more than $10 or $20 worth of dinosaur juice in their car at the gas station (and there are a fair few struggling at the moment) are certainly not going to be inclined to pre-pay for RUC (with or without the ridiculous admin fee!). Perhaps the new system isn't the greatest, but I think it's closer to 'fair' than the alternative some have mentioned, as well as capturing RUC in some form from more road users in general.

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gzt

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#3183191 17-Jan-2024 18:13

Technofreak: However if people are buying a PHEV where the use case is they often exceed the battery range then I'd suggest they've bought a vehicle with the wrong type of energy source.

A major reason for purchase of later model PHEV - it gives you a full electric vehicle without so-called range anxiety because you have petrol power on standby.Typically if you want that it's because you regularly break out and drive longer distances some days. Not a problem. Except, as discussed now because you'll be paying double ruc.

gzt

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#3183192 17-Jan-2024 18:13

Actually that can't be right eh. Surely there's a refund mechanism for this? or there will be after a short challenge after implementation imo.

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